Winter XC league current standings ?

[Fingers]

Oh for the good old days when......

Que 'the new world symphony' by 'dvorak' (HOVIS TUNE)

Cast your mind back and let yourself drift into a soft, warm comforting reminisce full of goodness, fun and love.

MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm loverly thanks for that Dave.

Back to the hear and now. Things change and not always for the better, but you either go with the flow or end up pissing against the wind.

If you come back and tell me you have flown 100 miles, I will believe you just like I believe the fisherman who has his arms stretched 5 foot wide showing me the one that got away. Like Ian says, you know how far you flew and that is all that matters. But if you are looking for absoloute proof of your exact flight and are interested in competition then you have no option to use a gps.

Lets say Dave, you do put in a record braking flight!! what you going to do? show the authorities (FIA, police, MI5, inland revenue) a couple of shakey snaps and a signed note on the back of a tab box from Mrs Miggins who seen you land before putting on her jam jar bottom glasses to see what was going on?

[Dave Hume]

Lets say Dave, you do put in a record braking flight!! what you going to do? show the authorities (FIA, police, MI5, inland revenue) a couple of shakey snaps and a signed note on the back of a tab box from Mrs Miggins who seen you land before putting on her jam jar bottom glasses to see what was going on?

Gordon Rigg did 152 miles (I think), pre GPS days and it was always fully accepted as the the British open distance record until Nick Pain took the record many many years later (with GPS). Loads of record breaking flights accepted and verified by FAA before GPS.

[Fingers]

Like you say before GPS.

Do you think they will accept it now?

[Dave Hume]

Like you say before GPS.

Do you think they will accept it now?

I don't see why not. If it's acceptable to the National League. See below from the paragliding XC league web site.......

Flight Evidence

The onus is on the submitting pilot to produce irrefutable evidence that the flight they are claiming took place, if challenged. The XC League is policed to ensure that no unfair play takes place, although in essence it is largely based on trust.....

Open Distance flights (i.e. no turnpoints) can still be validated with just a take-off and a landing witnesses, provided that your likely track is clear of certain controlled airspace........

Note the word TRUST Steve.

[colin keightley]

Every competition rules ive seen (the lakes charity classic being a good example) state in the rules that all competitors must record their flight with a GPS and its the same with other comps.

[Dave Hume]

Every competition rules ive seen (the lakes charity classic being a good example) state in the rules that all competitors must record their flight with a GPS and its the same with other comps.

But not the National XC Leagues....see above.

[Fingers]

Like you say before GPS.

Do you think they will accept it now?

I don't see why not. If it's acceptable to the National League. See below from the paragliding XC league web site.......

Flight Evidence

The onus is on the submitting pilot to produce irrefutable evidence that the flight they are claiming took place, if challenged. The XC League is policed to ensure that no unfair play takes place, although in essence it is largely based on trust.....

Open Distance flights (i.e. no turnpoints) can still be validated with just a take-off and a landing witnesses, provided that your likely track is clear of certain controlled airspace........

Note the word TRUST Steve.

I think the Nat XC league is a little different from the Worlds or World records.

produce irrefutable evidence

This has bugger all to do with trust, when you have Nat XC league guys bleating about a possible illegal use of ridge lift infringement do you think "erm....... yeh I flew here and landed there...... erm heres a signed affidavit from my mum to prove it" will wash? I dont think so.

I can see it now with the winner having 6 straight line flights of 100+ each verified by witnesses... yeh like thats going to happen.

Proof today is a GPS and there is no reason what so ever why you should not be able to produce it.

[Dave Hume]

Sorry Guys, this must be getting a bit boring now so I'll drop it there. Suffice to say I just wished to point out that, unbelievable as it may seem, cross country flying did take place before the advent of GPS and may even still be possible without it.....

Just for the benefit of newer guys coming into the sport who can't afford all the kit. A good vario will serve you better.

[colin keightley]

I think I have started with a tighter budget than most and I have a GPS a Garmin 12 only cost me £37 including postageand also of great use when doing a XC as you can put in waypoint markers before you set off to mark the edge of restricted airspace so when your worried you might be a bit close to the restriction you can have a quick check on your GPS

[Misk]

Dave if you have a moment of madness and buy a GPS make sure you get one that records altitude data. Whilst the PG NXCL accepts honesty and witness for open distance it will not accept GPS unless you have a 3D trace! The Garmin 12's are cheap but redundant when it comes to PG leagues. I don't know if the HG league is the same.

There was a good article in the last Skywings on GPS v barometric altitude disparity. Apparently your GPS altimeter will always over read to some degree and your GPS may indicate an Altbust incorrectly!

[John Wallis]

make sure you get one that records altitude data.

250 feet should cover it Dave You missed what was a very good meeting last night. A lot of positive input and some good discussion/ideas.

JW