LEARNING HELP REQUIRED

[JAMES SIMPSON]

HELLO I HAVE BOUGHT A SECOND HAND PARAGLIDER OFF EBAY AND IM TRYING TO LEARN TO FLY IT MYSELF I WAS GIVEN SOME MAGAZINES WHEN I BOUGHT IT BUT CAN’T FIND MUCH INFO. I DON’T WANT TO GO TO A SCHOLL AS THEY ARE EXPENSIVE AND A BIT OF A RIP OFF. CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET SOME GOOD INFO ON LEARNING, BOOKS ETC. THE GLIDER IS A GIN BOOMARANG AND THE GUY I BOUGHT IT OFF SAID IT WAS GOOD FOR LEARING ON ALTHOUGH HE DIDN’T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE HIMSELF. IT DOESN’T LOOK IN VERY GOOD CONDITION BUT WAS CHEAP.

THANKS JAMES

[AcidTest]

Hey Mate you might be able to help me with my Bengal Tiger (advertised as lively tabby needs home) I like you have burred my head into the "TITS GUIDE TO" but the thing is a bloody hand full. We can not give it enough food and it gets very angry if it looses its cat nip sack.

[GlennP]

I bought a Suzuki Hyabusa of me mate who didnt know much about it and wanted rid. Actually I bought it off the mates wife, I haven't seen my mate down the pub for a while, she seemed a bit upset when she I collected it, wearing black and crying a lot. Maybe she wanted the bike for herself? I dunno.....

Anyway its a bit crash damaged but I've put some stickers over that lot and some hammerite paint over the rest. I got helmet off the fella next door and patched the cracks up with gaffa tape now so I'm gonna take it out for a spin. Better do it on a dark rainy night though, probably on some twisty potholed country lane somewhere. Coz the coppers never go down there do they? Lets hope they dont coz I've got no licence or insurance and I dont even know how to ride a bike but I've seen it done on the telly and it looks a piece of piss.

Any tips on how to get me knee down?

[RonDon]

Saw the strangest thing today at East hill. There was this guy trying to take off on the west side of the hill in an east wind?

Another guy was out exercising his dog which looked very much like a Bengal Tiger being dragged face down through all the cowpats.

What ever next.

[nickonanova]

I DON’T WANT TO GO TO A SCHOLL AS THEY ARE EXPENSIVE AND A BIT OF A RIP OFF.

what is better? being skint, dead or at least being paralized? the second and third options are possible even with good training, those of us who have flown for any length of time all know people who have been badly hurt or killed so i would ask you to think about it long and hard before going it alone.

THE GLIDER IS A GIN BOOMARANG AND THE GUY I BOUGHT IT OFF SAID IT WAS GOOD FOR LEARING ON ALTHOUGH HE DIDN’T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE HIMSELF. IT DOESN’T LOOK IN VERY GOOD CONDITION BUT WAS CHEAP.

He lied the gin boomerang is a competition wing it will require active piloting it will not allow for mistakes, incorrect control inputs or turbulant air! it WILL COLLAPSE WITH EASE!, it will SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF YOU! if your lucky.
it is very different from a beginners wing it is like acid test said the boomerang is a bengal tiger(with PMT) where as a learners wing is more in line with a 3 week old kitten with a belly full of milk.

ask anybody in the club and they will tell you it is a great sport but there are risks that can be managed with good training

Good luck Nick
oh and on the off chance that this is a bit of northumbrian humour hehehehehehehe has it been so long since we last flew.....

[brian day]

hmmm, red gin boom, I smell a rat!
If not, there will be plenty crawling around the rotting corpse in West Allotment

[John Wallis]

James there's enough risks to contend with even when you have the correct training don't even think about trying to teach yourself there's a local school in the Cheviots and another in the Lakes it;s well worth the money.

[gary stenhouse]

i would not care i could of sold him my new r10 2 and that would of made the landings easier as glide to the ground would be gentler

[JAMES SIMPSON]

STRANGE ANSWERS I'M NOT SURE I'VE BOUGHT A GOOD GLIDER OR NOT YOUR ANSWERS ARE WIERD. IS IT TOO MUCH TROUBLE TO ASK FOR SOME HELP OR ARE YOU JUST A BUNCH OF TWATS THAT WON'T HELP SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO LEARN. I HAVE BOUGHT A BOOK WRITTEN BY NOEL WHITTAL IS THIS BOOK WORTH READING OR WILL YOU JUST GIVE ME MORE WEIRD ANSWERS

JAMES

[colin keightley]

Firstly stop using capitals all the time its called shouting on a forum.

Secondly because the glider you have bought is an expert competition glider (or a widow maker because they are that hard to fly) people think your taking the piss.

Thirdly if you plan to teach yourself how to fly it is a recipe for disaster a book aint going to teach you to fly as you need someone to point out the things you are doing wrong as you learn. A book aint going to do this. There have been a lot of people in the papers this year who have broken there backs and such from trying to teach themselves with kit off ebay. This is a sport which has no room for error even those of us who have lots of experience get seriously injured.

And lastly you will probably find that most if not all flyable hills in the area are school sites or club sites which you have to go through the proper channels, training licencing to be able to fly.

Hope this clears up a few things for you

[Kitt Rudd]

Hi James,
Firstly it is great you are intrigued by this great sport and have taken action ( albeit wrongly) to get yourself involved.

Ebay is a great place for the right things, old competition wings to absolute newbies it is not, although all too easy to do. You have simply been duped and if you carry on, you're on route to be another statistic probably.

I did spend a lot of time teaching myself - However I would not recommend this route. I came into the sport when it was really young - almost experimental. There is certainly no excuse for it now. I also came to this sport with not a lot of cash ( and I still don't have a lot in part because of my obsession with flying) but again its not an excuse be prepared to spend but it is possible to spend wisely ( buying old comps wings is not demonstrating this skill). So talk to the local schools, believe me, they are not there to fleece you. I am sure they can work something out .

If you are trying to learn to swim you don't do so by reading a book - the same goes with flying. Books are a good reference but there is nothing that equals having someone alongside you guiding you and correcting you as you are doing it. A Paragliding Instructor like the Swimming Instructor are there to keep you safe while you are learning to operate in a very unforgiving environment.

So please , dump the boomerang in a place where it won't come back to hurt either yourself or some other unsuspecting punter on ebay. Get yourself along to the next club night and talk to the lads and lasses. You will find that they are an enthusiastic bunch who will excite you ( and maybe bore you as well) about the sport. But most importantly do take guidance stepping of the hill for the first time is a special experience you do not want it to be your last.

The above posters are certainly not twats they each have been through the learning curve you want to embark on and they don'y want to hear of someone getting hurt unnecessary.

Their concern is real

Kitt

[gary stenhouse]

i have spoken to james and will be talking to him later so this post was not generated by ali gutherie as i thought.

so it looks like it is not a hoax and obviously some one has sold a boomerang to him so i think only helpfull comments would be better as it would be better to help than just make fun.

cheers gary

[Kitt Rudd]

Now that is is funny how Ali's name has come into the frame cos that was exactly who I thought had written it when I first viewed it. It was only this morning I thought that this guy may well be for real. Hence hopefully my more constructive response

kitt

[colin keightley]

I knew that it wasnt ali as I was told about this possible new member joining

[GlennP]

Hi James,

You asked for some info on magazines that might help you.

Please find some information below which might illustrate what you are about to embark on.

As other people have alluded to, paragliding can punish you for errors of judgement. Ie you will either be injured, possibly seriously or even killed for doing the wrong thing, with the wrong equipment at the wrong time in the wrong place.




Ps Turn CAPS LOCK off.

[GlennP]

from real people I beleive.

[JAMES SIMPSON]

thankyou i had a call from gary who was very helpful he told me it wasnt the best glider to start with. if this rain stops i might try a bit of ground handling? on the local field i guess you cant hurt yourself just playing on the field.

james

[colin keightley]

You would be surprised ground handling can lead to some quite severe head injuries make sure you wear a helmet and I wouldn't practice in winds over 15mph and don't just rely on what the weather man says the wind should be

[Jim Bittlestone]

Hi James,
I've been flying for two years now and love this sport. One of the reasons I love it so much is because I have had the right training and learnt so much from some great instructors. They taught me at a rate to satisfy even my "get on with it already" attitude, to a point where on day 4 of my elementary pilot course I was soaring a hill for 45 minutes.

In the past I have taught myself to climb, winter and summer, kayak white water, ski double black diamond couloirs on telemark skis etc.
I like to think I can catch on pretty quick but there is no way on this earth I would teach myself to fly a paraglider. I went to the experts because there is so much to learn not just to stay safe but to learn efficiently and progressively. Advice on kit, weather, air law, sites and anti collision rules etc.

It really is the only way to go. Its a sport that doesnt tolerate mistakes or off days.
Some instructors charge by the day rather than the course which can suit some folk.
As for ground handling, choose your site and conditions very wisely as there are always tragic tales of deaths and injuries doing this.
ALWAYS WEAR A HELMET.
Sorry for preaching but better that than see you get hurt.
Good luck and hope to see you on the hill.
Cheers
Jim

[AcidTest]

This has to be a wind up, but by some 1% it is not.

you cant hurt yourself just playing on the field

Really?

Look man.

NO ONE is going to teach you to fly for free here in this club.
NO ONE is going to give you tips on how to fly on any hill.

<THIS IS THE CRITICAL INFO BELOW>

There are insurance, liabilities and other people to consider, your not only putting your own life at risk but much more important, other peoples.

This is a VERY small nit comunity and EVERYONE knows everyone else, a new face on the hill is very quickly spotted. And someone who does not know there arse from there elbow sticks out like tits on your face.

You have NO other choice at all but to go to a registered school and learn. This is going to cost money, maybe £700. And then another £2000 or so for all the gear your going to need, the gear you have should be burned, you were seen coming.

[milleboy]

+1.

[brian day]

Appologies for my reply James, I too thought it was a certain Ali Guthrie (could still be!!!) winding people up.
Aside from giving you some very stern warnings about the consequences of our great sport, I think you probably have the message by now, well hopefully anyway. We should be looking at the person who sold you the wing and taking action against him. I would suggest opening a dispute in ebay, get your money back and expose the guy to the BHPA who should also give him a warning.
The problem is with these wings, so few people are prepared to fly them because of their dangerous handling characterisitics it is very difficult for owners to sell them on and when they do they suffer a massive monitory loss. Consequently ebay and false representation of the wing is often the only way to get rid of them.
We are a very helpful bunch and will welcome you to the club and help you on your firsts steps into the sport of free flying,,,,,,,after you have been to one of the schools and learned with a professional. You will soon start to appreciate the value of the learning process, I've nevermet anyone who has said it was a waste of time or money.
Get your money back,
Go learn
Buy a wing that is suitable for you
Come and join us
Fly far and be happy

[JAMES SIMPSON]

colin jim brian thankyou for your advice. acid test you sound like an idiot and i dont like your attitude i think you need help. brian i have been back onto ebay but the seller no longer exsists.

[Graeme Gilroy]

Hi James
All the guys are trying to save yer ass mate , and am sure more than one is wondering about the ID of the guy who sold you it and if you where to hurt yourelf even die using it would the seller be culpable ?
most of folk in this sport use sites like SKYADS to buy sell there gear on (check it out) which makes you think that it is stolen or from a more than unreputable source.
just take all the hints mate they all got yer best interests at heart.
cheers
Graeme

[GlennP]

Hi James,


Sorry if the following sounds a bit harsh and judgemental but honestly its for your own good.

As Colin points out ground handling can be dangerous aswell. To say you are going out ground handling in the pissing rain when its blowing a gale shows a lack of judgement and little patience. A 30mph gust would either drag you into a tree or a fence or an unsuspecting member of the public. Worse still you might be dragged into the air and then dumped with 2 broken legs as a reward.

Gary said he d spoken to you and was going to look over your wing and offer some advice. He s a lovely chap and very enthusiastic about the sport. Why cant you wait for that advice? Or for the the club night on Wednesday?

Jim B offers the right advice as does Brian and Acid test.

You dont seem to have carried out any form of risk assessment before saying you ll drag your aircraft ( yes its an aircraft and subject to airlaw ie courts fines and prison sentances ) out into unsuitable conditions and thats a REAL worry! Why?

Because paragliding can put you into places you dont want to go. If you take up this sport after a while you ll see people wha are constantly taking off in bad weather having near death experiences, getting dragged all over when ground handling and generally being stupid. The reason? They make no assessment of when they are doing or what their level of skill is.

Going on an EP course shows you that you know nothing and are a danger to yourself. The experienced instructors will guide you and keep you a safe as possible and along the way you WILL learn something about paragliding and about yourself. To say paragliding schools are a rip off makes you sound foolish. I dont know any PG instructors driving BMWs and flashing wads of cash about. I think some are just scraping by and if it werent for the fact that they love PGing I think most would give up.

The person who ripped you off is the guy you bought the wing off. No PG school is going to do that.

PS Read the part in Noels book about NOT teaching yourself before the rest of it. The fella in the article above didnt and look where he ended up.

[JAMES SIMPSON]

i can understand your concern but ive learned to do stacks of things myself. i got your club web address from a guy i met in hospital who had hurt his foot/leg and he went to a school and it didn't help him very much. i can't remember his name but i think he said he lived in stocksfield. i will try and get to one of your meetings but i dont have a car and dont drive so it will be awkward.

[gary stenhouse]

dont be put off by all the preaching, you have choices but beleive me if you canot afford to train then you are likely not to be able to fly.

the reason i say this is are nearest flying sites will be 40miles away so 80 mile total, so even if you self teach then you will still need if you travell alone 10 to 20 petrol every time you go flying. however if you are serious then once trained we all try to car share to keep down the cost.

also another good way to see what it is all about then try and hook up and come along one day when we are flying and see what it is about.

what you have to remember is leaving the ground is easy coming back down can be a whole lot harder in more ways than one.

to get an idea of the dangers check out youtube on paragliding and acidents and fatal ones as there is lots there.

once you are qualified then what you fly is your business and i will not critisise what you fly even if it is a dangerous wing for your level, as i beleive once an adult it is your choice.

by the way i am not getting at you as ignorance is bliss in this sport and the longer you do it the more you think

cheers gary

[AlastairW]

James, I did indeed speak to you briefly at the fracture clinic at Newcastle General.
You said you were interested in flying, and I told you to have a look at the NHPC website.
I want to make it absolutely clear that I did NOT say to you this was a sport you could teach yourself.
However you seem to have taken it upon yourself to go out and buy a totally inappropriate wing, and are now planning to teach yourself. Please don't. Listen to what others have said to you, and go and get some proper instruction. You can NOT learn this sport from a book. You will get hurt.

[JAMES SIMPSON]

Thank you for all thr information it is starting to sink in a bit
i will be doing some ground handling in the morning just to get the feel for it.
I have got my das old miners hat wich will have do do to start with
is it worth tethering the wing just in case it lifts

[Jim Bittlestone]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
(Got to be Ali?)