How not to SAT!

AlastairW · Post by **AlastairW** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:37 am

At the risk of pinching Andys (Sivboyo) thread, have a look at the video of someone on the final day of an SIV, atempting a SAT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRCB2gQv ... r_embedded

A classic example of how not to SAT.

The entry point of a SAT is the critical part of the manouver, you need to "spin" the wing at the point where it enters a nose down spiral. This is done by lots of weight shift and applying the inside brake further.

There are dire words of warning from Jocky about the consequences of over braking at the point of entry, resulting in a spin, needing a full stall to recover.

So most people are a little to gentle on the initial atempt - as in the video here.

Then on the second atempt people tend to be more agressive, often resulting in a "coconut", which is a spin from a SAT, with the wing on its side. Exactly this happens at 1:03 on the video. Far to agressive on the brake input.

Dont try this at home........ you need lots of height, lots of water beneath, and a recue boat as well.

Still, when you get it right, the feeling is amazing!

Post by **colin keightley** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:41 pm

stop please stop im getting a touch of the green eyed monster here

Post by **gary stenhouse** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:51 pm

the reasons why acro is something to be learnt on a gradual basis, and preferably by your own knoledge and understanding and feel. speeking to top guys in sport years ago, i was told if your going to learn acro then you need to teech yourself, as when you start you already need to know exactly what your feeling and when and when not to react. watching richard who bought my peak also said the same when he was doing almost looping wingovers sats and spirals. like he said in a wingover you are changing weight break pressure and so many things in order to keep the wing presurised and the only way you can do this is by experience and feel.

AlastairW · Post by **AlastairW** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:34 pm

Talk to Adam Ingrham at the weekend.....

He has been flying acro for over 8 years, and is pretty damned good at it.

Gary is right, the most important thing is "feel" understanding when you have enough energy in the wing to carry out a manouver, and when to stop.

Take a look at Felix Rodriguez doing a Rhythmic SAT to infinity tumble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXspE7UuP5c

Once into the tumble there is very little input from the pilot, but what there is is critical. A little right brake at 1:27ish, then a dab on both brakes a couple of revolutions later.

And without the feel to understand the requirement for the inputs, you are toast.

Can you imagine just how much energy there must be in the wing???

And how big the wheelbarrow must be to carry his gonads in?????

antobaird · Post by **antobaird** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:03 pm

This was definately my most memorable flight ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILynFaun2NI

My coconut attempt (1:25) was bang on first time

My strategy was go for it properly (he who hesitates is doomed etc etc.) ...but I knew as soon as the RH brake pressure went to zero on entry that it had gone to s**t.

Then excellent SIV training came in very handy.

myerscouse · Post by **myerscouse** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:22 pm

Nice one anto thats the way you do em

ron freeman · Post by **ron freeman** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:03 pm

Bloody hell ! very nice chute though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oZ6xXK3jBs

Jim Bittlestone · Post by **Jim Bittlestone** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:18 pm

Nice moves Anto, you looked in real control there

Very stable, I think Jocky mentions "text book", nice.
Jocky seems to give good confident instructions, does he wean students off the radio so that you can be more independent, or is this an end of the week oportunity to give something a go?
Also, is anyone going out in September?
Cheers
Jim

Post by **gary stenhouse** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:32 pm

the problem with acro is the uk and ground clearance, i mean before you can sat you realy neady to know the point of spiral and if you dont know that then dont try it unless over water. taught myself in aneccy though at the time i was on a wing that i had spiraled 100 of times now i am no longer current. as you can see by the video if you dont know the point of spiral beware as the spin is dangerous, if you do then the worst is deep spiral in the -20+ms so you better be prepared. would like some day to master the wing over as this is probablt one of the hardest things to master before moving onto rythmic and helicopters etc.

Kay · Post by **Kay** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:52 pm

Coolio Dadio

Excellent SAT ing. Looked nice and in control (apart from the begining bit !!

)

Have already booked you in for next years LCC.

Mikey Harper · Post by **Mikey Harper** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:32 pm

I bumped into Jocky a few weeks ago up Catbells about to take his his 6 year old son for a fly. As they were strapping in Seb asked his dad how you start a SAT and the instructions seemed simple, concluding in 'then just wack it in'. I'm not sure who was at the controls 5 minutes later on...

antobaird · Post by **antobaird** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:54 pm

Jim Bittlestone wrote: Jocky seems to give good confident instructions, does he wean students off the radio so that you can be more independent, or is this an end of the week oportunity to give something a go?

It's amazing how Jocky seems to know exactly what's going on/gone wrong with a wing while radioing instructions from a boat 5000 feet below. "a little too much left brake on the exit" etc.

The amount of instructions are very much dependent on your familiarity with the manouever - to start with there's quite a bit of help on the radio but as you get the hang of it (whatever "it" is) eventually the instructions are stripped down to "ok then turn to face the lagoon then symmetric/b-line/spin/stall in your own time".

Yes - At the end of the Turkey SIV course you get a chance to try out whatever you feel up to!

It's a great course - just ask Jan or Chris who've just survived one!

Jim Bittlestone · Post by **Jim Bittlestone** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:42 pm

Cheers Anto, it's got to be a good thing to chuck your wing about with that much height with Jocky on a radio watching every move. You must learn loads about your wing by doing such manouvers.
I am still well within my safety zone, which is probably well within the safety zone of my wing. I think it is good to explore the limits as then you know where they are, what happens if you go past them, how to get out of tricky situations etc.
The more videos I see, the more confident I am that he will give good feedback and expand my own knowledge.
It's such a shame that it's not in the Alps where excellent first aid and Hospitals etc exist.
I have time off in September and October, can't decide whether to go to Spain in October or do an SIV course.
Cheers
Jim

Chris L · Post by **Chris L** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:00 pm

Jim...........Do an SIV. We learned a lot about our wings that we can apply to every day flying and which should help a lot for XC so you don't even have to think about your wing and just settle down to making decisions about where to fly. Well worth it.
Write ups photos and videos to come (including my SAT

) and collapsing wing overs

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How not to SAT!

How not to SAT!

Bloody hell..