Are you as good as the glider you fly?

[brian day]

I sold a pod harness this weekend and easily spent over an hour with the customer ensuring they had it properly set up for them

I've had 2 harnesses, I've been pleased with them both, but, the adjustments keep moving, slowly but surely everything slackens off, it then takes me ages to get it right again. Is there a correct order to do things? I hang it up in the garage and try, but it never feels the same under a wing.

[Kitt Rudd]

The simple answer is once you are happy with your set up then knot or tape your straps up. There are not that many harnesses which do not suffer from this. and if you are a pilot who does a lot lanuching to test the air then followed by ground handleing you wing . You will find that you are constantly loading and unloading the buckles which has the effect of slackening off many of your adjustments.

As for an order I not sure that there is a sequence as such but it is certainly worth understanding what each buckle alters.

I like to get the an angle of recline right first I am quite particular about this I want a position which allows me to just see the leading edge of my wing without making a definite movement of the head to view it (so it is just in my periphery vision). The bit that I take the most time over is setting up the speed bar. I want to be able to access the full range and I don't want to find myself with say a half bar applied and not be a full leg stretch. I use a three step bar which gives me 1/4, 1/2 and full bar without having to have my legs left in a semi-stretch position.

Hope this helps

Kitt

[Kitt Rudd]

The simple answer is once you are happy with your set up then knot or tape your straps up. There are not that many harnesses which do not suffer from this. and if you are a pilot who does a lot launching to test the air then follow it with plenty of ground handling You will find that you are constantly loading and unloading the buckles which has the effect of slackening off many of your adjustments.

As for an order I not sure that there is a sequence as such but it is certainly worth understanding what each buckle alters.

I like to get the an angle of recline right first I am quite particular about this I want a position which allows me to just see the leading edge of my wing without making a definite movement of the head to view it (so it is just in my periphery vision). The bit that I take the most time over is setting up the speed bar. I want to be able to access the full range and I don't want to find myself with say a half bar applied and not be a full leg stretch. I use a three step bar which gives me 1/4, 1/2 and full bar without having to have my legs left in a semi-stretch position.

Hope this helps

Kitt

[Kitt Rudd]

Sorry senior moment

[AlastairW]

Dont worry Kitt.... it was definately worth repeating anyway!!

Thanks for the advice!

[John Wallis]

Actually this could be a very good call for someone in the know to do a YouTube type demo of what all the straps do on different harnesses. I love my Genie 4 and have an idea what most of the straps do, I guess you adjust things until you feel comfortable and if it feels right it probably is. But with all the talk on lower end gliders having problems mainly?? through the chest strap settings it could be very valuable visual info and a very good sales pitch too.

Anyone fancy a challenge who sells harnesses?

[Sad Northerner]

Oh dear I feel that someone has to interject with some common sense here!
We all seem to be getting 'hung up' on the harness chest width a little too much....is my wing really going to react so differently if my chest strap wiggles a little wider?; I don't think so.
the chances are that your probably more likely to have an accident worrying about this issue that if your chest strap is a little too tight or loose.
Should all harnesses be set to exactly the same width? what if I'm flying a really big or small wing? what if I'm a really fat b$*%$*d and can't get the chest strap to the desired width.
Why on earth do harness manufacturers have put 'adjustable' chest straps of harnesses?
In short, set your harness correct the first time, remember it as best you can and try and keep it at that width until you develop the skill to play around with your chest strap width.....but, by all accounts, don't worry about your chest strap width at the cost of knowing what your hands are doing.


Cheers


Ali

[gary stenhouse]

from experience of chest strap and high end gliders then a close chest strap setting is not good. the reason is y being slightly wider it will give you better feed back and prevent the onslaught of colapses. the spin is one of the biggest risks of the start of a cascade and the close your chest strap the more the risk.

the strange thing is all the way through taing nd buying my first harness i was never shown how to set the harness up or at what point you measure the 42cm. also i have never seen any literature on harness to say how to set up exactly the width

cheers gary

[Kitt Rudd]

I agree with Ali, there are many misconceptions about chestrap settings. Mine is set as wide as I can get it. Johnny Silv'once cut his off and retied a longer length of climbing tat as a replacement. (Now I am not suggesting this to anyone). However standards have been created to ensure uniformity with regards to testing. Also some harnesses are definately more wobbley with the strap fully slackened ( Up fast for example) this combined with a much lower hangpoint posistion than most gives fantastic feedback on a thermic day. Its like flying with the sensistivity dial cranked up. However this is not to be recommended for a relative low airtimer. So I agree with what Ali is saying but not all harnesses are the same and as such keeping within the guidelines is prudent especially when making changes with your kit.


Kitt

[brian day]

Thanks for the advice Kitt, I'll try taping and tying knots next time I get it right.

[ron freeman]

All manufactures will recommend the type of harness you should be flying with your wing plus strap settings

If you are flying a wing that is too small or way too big you are probably outside the manufactures weight range and that is another issue !

Chest settings - some pilots use their arm as a rough guide, stick your elbow & fist between the crabs and adjust your chest strap to a nice fit.

Or a more accurate way - mark out a length of string to 42cm with 6-7cm
spare at the ends of the string, then tie one end to a crab make sure the marker is in line with the crab then take the other end and measure out your 42cm with the other crab, adjust your harness and make a mental note of how much spare strap is hanging out of the chest strap buckle
onc'e adjusted !

I'm sure that we have all taken off and thought something is not quite right then you look down and see no spare chest strap sticking through the chest buckle...don't panic as long as the air is not too rough and you have a bit of height, fly straight out from the hill and let the brakes up
then let go of the brakes, you wil now have to steer with weight shift !

Put one arm outside of your riser and reach over and get a hold of your other riser and gently pull them together, use you other arm to adjust your chest strap until you have the correct amount of spare strap sticking throught the chest buckle. Sorted.

[Kitt Rudd]

this is my point, how can you say you are better than your wing if you can not take it to the edge of its capabuilitys. as for noose down spirals i think to learn to spiral and come out. it is the only manover that you are likely to have to use in an emergancy in clowd suck. i have done the full stall b lines etc but when the shit hits the fan then spiral is the only way out. cross country flying is only one aspect of flying and even novicr pilots without any glider skills manage to do massive xc on the right day in the right place. but the novice pilot can not stumble accross a sat a proper wingover and other acro manovers. this is what i mean flying is so diverse and can come in diferent forms, yet the measure of someones abulity is always measured by how far you can fly?

gives you food for thought on what makes you a good pilot?

I would like to pick up on a comment that Gary made earlier in this thread about clearing cloud suck.
I have some concerns with Gary's approach to getting away from cloud suck. I am not saying it does not work but applying a spiral has its issues.

If not entered with conviction you will end up just cranking it up in the core
Can lead to severe g forces
still leaves you under the cloud
If it's a really large cloud you will have to deal with the gust front - possibly on landing.
and there is always the threat of entering a stable spiral

Betterin my view to point your glider towards the nearest edge and apply the speed bar. If your wing flies more stably in big ears, pull ears and apply bar. On almost all wings you will then be doing 50kmh+, unless you have been being particularly oblivious you will be trying to escape a forming cu-nimb towards the nearest edge. Even if that edge is 1km away you will get there in just over a minute if you fly in a straight line. While doing this take a bearing so that you can maintain your line if your are already at base (though if you are there already you are late in your decision making). The decision to run away can easily be recognised as you thermal - deciding to leave early due to expected overdevelopment can never be regarded as a poor decision.

Once clear of the cloud suck think about where you are going to land - that cloud suck might be the only thing that will give you the altitude you need to glide out to a safe landing away from any gust front - you are pretty safe gliding about at altitude. It is the getting back on the ground that is dangerous. If you've spiralled down to land you have probably placed your self in or very close to the gust front, landing in these conditions after potentially serious g forces carrys in my book a real health warning. I recall Adrian Thomas telling me how at the Red Bull wings-over-aspen in 1999 I think he ended up sitting quite comfortably at around 17000 feet cruising around in the blue, having a very nice time now because he chose to fly to the nearest exit fast, and now at he was watching the specks below him who had chosen to spiral down getting blown backwards across the landing field.

In nearly 20 years of paraglider flight I can honestly say I have never needed to perform a nose down spiral to exit cloud suck but I must confess I have needed to exit a few clouds which had become too lively, some with unexpected light shows and have always found the level flight and plenty of foot action approach has worked.

Gary before you reply this is not meant as a personal attack on your experience. it is just my view that flying straight and fast to the nearest edge is a good alternative to trying to perform an aggressive spiral - especially in light of recent comments regarding the dangers of spirals in skywings and various safety notices.


Kitt

[gary stenhouse]

the strange thing was i was in big ears going up in off the scale thermal i now could only make out my wing and felt realy carm and happy. then dave smart came to mind about his experience in france where he lost coordinastion and ended up covered in ice and how he was so disoriented. at this point i calmly let out the ears and spiraled out, only because i am very comfortable to do so. however a regret dearly my inexperience, as i new what i should of done and didnt do it. what i did realise is how i need to spend more time on the way up looking where i am heading.

this is the experience i lack and hope that when i do get more experience at climbing to base i will blossom and make the right choice.

your advise is right and sometimes the brain cells get confused once you hav enterd and climbing wildly.

cheers no affence taken and if i had done as you had said i could of been at saltburn with ali eating icecreem

[John Wallis]

Can I just add a note here to the club members who are thinking about going XC this year. You will all probably be shitting yourselves reading all this about cloud suck, light shows, death spirals etc etc.

The conditions you generally find big build ups like this is in low pressure systems where the clouds can build to great heights. If you are in a friendly sky and you are getting close to cloud base the lift will diminish and you will be able to play around on the edge in the wisps. If the cloud starts to really suck and the vario is going daft you've got to get to the edge of it.

So lift diminishes as you near cloud - cloud OK

If the lift is accelerating the closer you get to base - Cloud not OK.

Cloud bottoms are generally concave so if you are in the dead center going up you will be clear of cloud but you will see the edges to the side and below you. If it's not an OK cloud it will probably be too late by this time and you will be going into the white room.

Keep an eye on the forecast, the weather and the sky and with any luck you shouldn't experience too many problems.

I've no doubt people will have different opinions but this is what I've always used and it usually works for me.


The last thing you want is to be in a position where you want to be down it can be very scary.

HTH

JW

[ron freeman]

The most important issue on going XC is to have it all planned out before you take off.

I have always planned my xc's the night before, weather, lapse rate, cloud base height, pressure. Check out all my equipment, most important is your map (gps) batteries, fluid, warm flying suit & good gloves.

On the day on site (get there early) check out how slow or quick the clouds are building and how fast down wind they are traveling, know all the into wind ridges down wind and how far away they are (you might need them ! )

If its your first XC, talk to someone on the hill for advise before you take off. The worst thing that you can do is to follow someone else who has done his home work and your flying blind !

XC flying can be very complex the more you do the more you want so its very important to keep it simple when its your first go.

Happy XC flips

[Sad Northerner]

Tricky this because no one rule can be applied to all situations other than to anticipate potential over development.
In Gary's case it was probably the right thing to do, but only because he had allowed himself to get the wrong position in the first place (he was in the middle of the thermal and hard under the cloud before he took the necessary action, which stand as testimony to his observation of his own, big cloud, 'inexperience').
Although the verdict, on the finer aspects of escaping cloud suck, is still out (ask ten top pilots what they’d do and you’ll probably get a few different answers) the advice that Kitt gives is sound.
In short if you find yourself fast approach cloud, establish a steady course towards the side, (not the upwind nor downwind), edge of the cloud and make note of your compass bearing and direction just in case.


Ali

[John Wallis]

The most important issue on going XC is to have it all planned out before you take off.

I have always planned my xc's the night before, weather, lapse rate, cloud base height, pressure. Check out all my equipment, most important is your map (gps) batteries, fluid, warm flying suit & good gloves.

On the day on site (get there early) check out how slow or quick the clouds are building and how fast down wind they are traveling, know all the into wind ridges down wind and how far away they are (you might need them ! )

If its your first XC, talk to someone on the hill for advise before you take off. The worst thing that you can do is to follow someone else who has done his home work and your flying blind !

XC flying can be very complex the more you do the more you want so its very important to keep it simple when its your first go.

This is where I'm going wrong. I just glance at an air chart and go

[Sad Northerner]

Naa John

I take the other view of XC flying. By all means you have to know your forecasts but on the day I find it pays to keep an open mind... I guess it's horses for courses eh?


Ali

[ron freeman]

Agree with the open mind bit Ali but the more information you have in your head the safer you will feel therefore the better you will fly and the futher you will go.

I must admit some of my tips come from flying competitions and its hard to forget good habits.

[Pete Batey]

The Sting 3 is a medium performance kingposted intermediate and was reviewed by gary hume in the latest skywings:
http://p.b5z.net/i/u/10033685/i/91A_Cor ... en_tot.htm

http://p.b5z.net/i/u/10033685/i/915_Cor ... en_tot.htm

The Litesport is a performance intermediate:
Note 10th position here:
http://www.moyes.com.au/Forbes2009/Resu ... esult.html

The Falcon is a beginner wing with exposed cross tubes and probably worse performance than a paraglider:
Note position 20 here:
http://p.b5z.net/i/u/10033685/i/915_Cor ... en_tot.htm

It's not your equipment but what you do with it
Pete