Interesting picture !

ron freeman · Post by **ron freeman** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:07 pm

Have a look at this picture taken a couple of week ago driving over the tops near Elsdon village the wind was a fresh westerly time aprox 3.30pm.

For the budding XC pilot :- can you spot the lift & sink areas plus how many different types of lift in the pic ?

Fingers · Post by **Fingers** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:46 am

Treee

RonDon · Post by **RonDon** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:32 am

Correct.

John Wallis · Post by **John Wallis** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:28 pm

Pray enlighten us got to say I would be picking at straws to say much about that picture apart from the cu's in the distance.

ron freeman · Post by **ron freeman** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:15 pm

There are four different types of lift in the picture Wave, convergence, thermal & ridge lift.

Low airtimers often forget to look for ridges into wind when drifting downwind on an XC and generally its the ridges into wind are the life saver of a long XC.

I thought this was a very interesting picture for XC training, the more XC you do the more you will see when looking for good lift.

John Wallis · Post by **John Wallis** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:37 pm

Naa wave sea breeze not defined enough. Thermals easy ridge easy the rest needs to be explained at the next meeting. You say the picture is for the up and coming xc pilot. That's fair enough if you can see all these things in the sky but my money is that others can't see this. I,m not saying its not correct but I think you need to point out these things and explain. Will you do that and give some time like ali did last meeting under very awkward circumstances? Would make an interesting talk/discussion.

Ps I've just looked at the picture again the wave looks like a bit of cumulus the convergence looks like another bit of cumulus and the sea breeze looks like a bit of blue sky am I missing something ?

ron freeman · Post by **ron freeman** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:34 pm

The wave bars were at 5000ft asl + the cummulus base were at 4,000ftasl the convergence came down to 1500ftasl rising to 4000ftasl and the ridge lift was at 800ft asl.

You can clearly see the wedge shaped raggy cloud being formed by the advancing see breeze from the east coast

I am happy to give a talk but we need a much more reliable venue.
For me the Corner house is a waste of time.

Post by **gary stenhouse** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:16 am

ok we have had the corner house for 6 years and there has only beeen about 9 meetings at the most changed.

the last meeting was due to the room been flooded out so i think that blaming a unrela=iable venue is a lame excuse.

after all your happy to use club sites to carry out profesional training yet with contribution to runing the sites like sites officer?

other clubs normally have there instuctors as sites officers as they rely on the sites more than any one else.

i dont like excuses so dont use the venue for any as after trying to find a free room with the benefits of food drink computer access with screen to use is not easy.

when you find a free room that can give all of these benefits that will be central to all members then i think we should think we are lucky to have what we have.

cheers gARY

John Wallis · Post by **John Wallis** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:12 am

The wave bars were at 5000ft asl + the cummulus base were at 4,000ftasl the convergence came down to 1500ftasl rising to 4000ftasl and the ridge lift was at 800ft asl.

The clouds are all the same height in the photo aren't they? Your heights are very definate how do you work them out from the mark one eye ball? I still fail to see the the points you are referring to I'm well prepared to listen and be corrected so others can learn.

The Lion and Lamb at Horsley is Free with internet access if you want me to arrange that for your talk, failing that interested pilots can come to my house where I will give all a free glass of wine and a sarnie while we all learn. Can you get fairer than that??

JW

ron freeman · Post by **ron freeman** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:17 am

I put a very interesting picture on our web site trying to help our low airtimers and what do you get in return !!!

My School being attacked again ! what the F... has sites officer's job got to do with this pic ?

Wallis taking the piss again.. if he's not moaning about the Cheviots he will moan about a picture !!!

I totally give up...........................

For what it worth.. the day I took this picture I rang around later on talking to other pilots gathering information about the weather conditions on the day but... never the less you will probably find something wrong with that also

Post by **gary stenhouse** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:05 am

the reason i brought this up, is the fact of your negativity on the venue?
you have only been to 3 meetings in 3 years and yet you are happy to be confrontational on the board.

it is hard enough trying to get people to mettings without people calling the venue unreliable.

still come october i guess it will be someone elses problem though i think it will be a no turn out meeting with a big struggle to get members to come up

John Wallis · Post by **John Wallis** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:13 am

Totally wrong Ron I genuinely could not make out all the weather phenomenons that you pointed out so I asked you to clarify so I and others can learn if there are other pilots that can see what you are referring too please make your voice be heard. I offered my home with something to eat and drink so we could have a talk on met I love listening about met it interests me a great deal and have done many tough exams on the topic. How the hell is that taking the piss. If you post something and others don't understand how about helping them understand get a grip and stop spitting the dummie out my house as a venue still stands

ron freeman · Post by **ron freeman** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:22 am

Gary, the Corner house only came up because the Moaner asked me to do a talk.. certainly not confrontational ! also you already know my position with the place.

We used to have regular talks at our meetings and due to being kicked in the bar on 3 consecutive monthly meetings it be came impossible to organise anything due to a very unreliable venue so can't blame members for not turning up.

I found a very reliable venue ! yes we had to pay a small fee but it was turned down..

As for 'Site officer' I have a fantastic relationship with most of our site owners because I bump into them all the time and continue to build a solid relationship and communications when ever I can.

You were wrong to drag my school or my role as instructor into this debate
that is a very negative thing to do.

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:14 pm

I for one would like to know more about identifying and using convergence. Could you somehow manage to fly parallel to the coast along a line where a sea breeze meets a prevailing westerly e.g. Take off at season sluice land at Alnmouth or is this just a mid afternoon fantasy ??

Sad Northerner · Post by **Sad Northerner** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:46 pm

Hi Henry et al.

convergence plays its part in more flights than people are generally aware of; perhaps we are just happy to have an area of lift to circle in and don't necessarily need to know the origins of thermal providing the lift.

Sea breeze convergence, in my opinion, rarely sets up in the classic sense that is sold to us in glossy flying mags but it does present opportunities that we can utilise.

I'll see if I can dig out some photo's of convergence clouds encountered during paragliding, also.... nearly all my flights in the league this year had some element of convergence, maybe an interesting exercise to see if you can pick out where.

If people want I could do a chat regarding convergence flying, providing I'm not standing on Ronnie's toes (would be great to hear his take on things though). Perhaps Wallis's place would be a good, informal place to do a chat ....if the chat is crap we can just get naked together?

Ali

ron freeman · Post by **ron freeman** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:11 pm

Hi Henry, your half way there, you mention a westerly meeting a easterly sea breeze thats exactly how it happens !

Seaton Sluice takes north easterly too soar so no good there, our best site for convergence are Moneylaws, West hill, East hill, Titlington pike, Old bewick, Heburn wood, Cross fell.

You need a flying site inland ranging from s.w. to n.w. Spotting convergence is quite easy, generally after about midday look towards the coast line (east) and you will see a dark band just above the horizion thats the sea breeze building up.

The sea breeze does not always advance inland it all depends on the prevailing wind inland if this wind is strong 25-35mph it will push the sea breeze back and the convergence line will stay at the coast.

Paragliders stand a better chance of a sea breeze's advancing inland because they fly in much lighter winds.

Going back to looking at the coast line you will notice the cummulus clouds
forming a line parallell to the coast line, there will be a raggy wedge shaped cloud forming much lower than cloud base sometimes only 1000ft agl ! thats the convergence line advancing inland from the coast ! watch it all the time because where ever you are flying its probably coming way so be ready for huge lift when it gets there.

Always stay inland of the advancing sea breeze front and you willl stay in the lift ! don't fly through it !!! it will be rough air and you will be on the deck in no time. Best to fly along it, if the wind is s.w. head north, if the wind is n.w. fly south.

Have fun.

IainB · Post by **IainB** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 pm

Great info thanks Ron.
I've heard so many people discussing this but never quite known what I should be looking for. Another little bit of info for the memory banks.

Cheers

John Wallis · Post by **John Wallis** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:10 am

Pretty good description in the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_breeze

Sad Northerner · Post by **Sad Northerner** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:50 pm

https://plus.google.com/photos/10474196 ... 3681686529

don't know if the link will work, can someone let me know.

Ali

Post by **gary stenhouse** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:42 pm

some great pictures ali yes the llink works

Chris L · Post by **Chris L** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:38 am

Would prefer a talk !! Very good topic to cover

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:51 pm

Hello Guys
Thanks a lot for the explanation Ronnie re sea breezes has helped a lot with my understanding. Thanks also to Ali for the actual photos on convergence, they certainly bring home the idea of dodging into and out of cloud at base that you talked about !
Henry

NHPC Private and Public Forum

Interesting picture !

Interesting picture !

Four !

pic

site officer ?

wrong !

Henry