Says it all really!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ining.html
Cheers
Mike
(renamed) Another in the NEWS
Moderator: Club Moderators
I did this once some time ago but with 300 feet of rope, no doubt some of you have already heard the tale. Unfortunately I was in the air for 20 mins being subjected to terrifying successive 100ft freefalls and being shaken to within an inch of my life like a rag doll on a piece of string. It only ended when my prayers to God to strike me dead quickly were answered by the 12mm polyprop anchor line snapping having dragged the Ford Escort several feet accross the car park before giving up. This holy act allowed me to crash uncerimoniously to the beach in a concertina like fashion resulting in 2 feet holes with 1 head hole between them in the sand before being dragged into the sea.
Not something I care to repeat in a hurry and not unlike this chap Iwas totally oblivious and unaware of the possible dangers at the time. I was also lucky to esacape with my life in tact.
Worth remembering, one moment of stupidity can result in a whole lifetime of pain.
Not something I care to repeat in a hurry and not unlike this chap Iwas totally oblivious and unaware of the possible dangers at the time. I was also lucky to esacape with my life in tact.
Worth remembering, one moment of stupidity can result in a whole lifetime of pain.
Ouch! that hurt.
Re: What a Knob!!
At least this seems to be a bit more accurate reporting than the report of the same incident in the Sunderland Echo which seemed to indicate that the paraglider was bound to fall out of the sky if the wind stopped.Mike Brown wrote:Says it all really!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ining.html
Cheers
Mike
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colin keightley
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incident
as colin says it's a totally different incident but it's another one in the press that we as freefliers or PPGers dont need.
From the fellas description that the "air just stopped" he has no knowledge or concept of aerodynamics and it's a guess but in that case he probably doesn't have a licence or CP pass. As Bill Scott has already asked at the Country Park if he could fly there and they said they dont even allow kite flying then he looks like he has tresspassed and took off without permission aswell.
Some sloppy reporting in all the local papers with no balance or informed reaction whatsoever. Quoting the emergency services to explain what happened is lazy journalism, the police, ambulance service etc are not the AAIB and have no idea what flying is. One article even said the paraglider "developed a fault" Aye it did the moment that numpty strapped in below!!!!!!!
From the fellas description that the "air just stopped" he has no knowledge or concept of aerodynamics and it's a guess but in that case he probably doesn't have a licence or CP pass. As Bill Scott has already asked at the Country Park if he could fly there and they said they dont even allow kite flying then he looks like he has tresspassed and took off without permission aswell.
Some sloppy reporting in all the local papers with no balance or informed reaction whatsoever. Quoting the emergency services to explain what happened is lazy journalism, the police, ambulance service etc are not the AAIB and have no idea what flying is. One article even said the paraglider "developed a fault" Aye it did the moment that numpty strapped in below!!!!!!!
You are only as good as your last flight........
Well pointed out Dave, a knob I must be.
Too many people know of it to try cover it up, it was 20 years ago with an old Parachute and the point I was trying to get accross is that we can all make mistakes due to poor judgement and lack of knowledge. Like I at the time he probably had no concept at all of what could go wrong, after all a kite seems to stay up there quite happily. It wasn't untill some years later when I took up Paragliding via a school that I realised the full implications of what I had done and how very lucky I was to walk away.
Hopefully you are far to bright and informed to make mistakes Dave.
Too many people know of it to try cover it up, it was 20 years ago with an old Parachute and the point I was trying to get accross is that we can all make mistakes due to poor judgement and lack of knowledge. Like I at the time he probably had no concept at all of what could go wrong, after all a kite seems to stay up there quite happily. It wasn't untill some years later when I took up Paragliding via a school that I realised the full implications of what I had done and how very lucky I was to walk away.
Hopefully you are far to bright and informed to make mistakes Dave.
Ouch! that hurt.
what a knob
Ask Dave how many uprights he's broken 
20 years ago you could be forgiven for being a bit ignorant if you were thinking of going paragliding with no idea and no instruction but in the days of the internet when more information than you can ever imagine is few key strokes away there is simply no excuse.
I bet in the book that the fella half read it said in the first few pages something along the lines of " paragliding is not something you should try and teach yourself you should seek a qualified instructor....this is a dangerous sport.....you could end up being severly injured or even dead....etc etc"......but I hazard a guess that he skipped that bit coz it was borin' like.
20 years ago you could be forgiven for being a bit ignorant if you were thinking of going paragliding with no idea and no instruction but in the days of the internet when more information than you can ever imagine is few key strokes away there is simply no excuse.
I bet in the book that the fella half read it said in the first few pages something along the lines of " paragliding is not something you should try and teach yourself you should seek a qualified instructor....this is a dangerous sport.....you could end up being severly injured or even dead....etc etc"......but I hazard a guess that he skipped that bit coz it was borin' like.
You are only as good as your last flight........
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gary stenhouse
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ITS FUNNY HOW ONCE YOU BECOME A RESPONSIBLE PARAGLIDER PILOT it all seems so stupid. the thing is though we think like this as we are now trained and hopefully competant. the thing is now it is so easy to have a go yourself after all you go on holiday and jump on the back of a boat get towed along and all seems so simple and easy.
my thoughts now are how iresponsible we are as pilots as we are obviously quite willing to sell are kit to anybody who will by it and lets be fair we do bear some of the blame.
so the next time you are selling your kit remeber it is your morral responsabilty to ensure you sell to a safe person and that what you are selling is airworthy. yet lets be fair we could say why should you as they are grown ups so they should be big bad and ugly enough to make there own decisions.
interesting thoughts as i know i have been guilt in the past but will make me think in the future
my thoughts now are how iresponsible we are as pilots as we are obviously quite willing to sell are kit to anybody who will by it and lets be fair we do bear some of the blame.
so the next time you are selling your kit remeber it is your morral responsabilty to ensure you sell to a safe person and that what you are selling is airworthy. yet lets be fair we could say why should you as they are grown ups so they should be big bad and ugly enough to make there own decisions.
interesting thoughts as i know i have been guilt in the past but will make me think in the future
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colin keightley
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I would never knowingly sell my kit to someone without the skills to fly it, i dont think i could live with myself if i come accross him in the arbituaries the following week after an unfortunate paragliding accident. It is something that i have mentioned on here before.
If Acro was easy they'd call it Cross Country
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Neil
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dont be so harsh he was just looking for a slice of what we have. if he had got away with it hed be in the club nxt year. poor sod. iv done worse and got away with it. then you learn. we shoulnd be so judgmental. there are a greatmany people out there who rush to judgment.
never waste a hard on and don't trust a fart
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Sad Northerner
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'What a knob' ....yes I agree; but I guess he doesn't need anybody to tell him this. How many of us have been this same position? I have and I would guess that all you have too (maybe the next time one of us gets hurt the rest of us can stand, point and say 'look at that knob!')
A few in the club seem to want blood for what Roy has done to our sport, he's made a big mistake and drawn attention to the negative aspects of it... but I don't see him denying this?
Besides how do you expect our sport started in the first place, somehow I don’t think Sylvester or Holmes did there CP with the BHPA and there are a few of our own pilots did not learn via the BHPA and I know a few others who have let friends ‘have a go’.
And whereas we may think that we are trained and qualified enough to eliminate the risks in our sport the truth of the matter is that we are not and never will be. The next time you attempt to try something new e.g. glide to somewhere new or go over the back etc ask yourself how the situation differs from that leading up to Roy’s accident and you will probably find that you are basing your move on something somebody told you or something you read in a book, you are stepping into the unknown and taking a chance much as he did.
In short you could teach a monkey to fly a paraglider but it takes a lifetime to read the air unfortunately only the former is obvious to the layman so perhaps rather than slating these people to the press or publically casting aspersions that will only serve to further alienate them maybe we should seek to advise and guide these people ....I’m sure Gordy or Ronnie will appreciate the work.
A few in the club seem to want blood for what Roy has done to our sport, he's made a big mistake and drawn attention to the negative aspects of it... but I don't see him denying this?
Besides how do you expect our sport started in the first place, somehow I don’t think Sylvester or Holmes did there CP with the BHPA and there are a few of our own pilots did not learn via the BHPA and I know a few others who have let friends ‘have a go’.
And whereas we may think that we are trained and qualified enough to eliminate the risks in our sport the truth of the matter is that we are not and never will be. The next time you attempt to try something new e.g. glide to somewhere new or go over the back etc ask yourself how the situation differs from that leading up to Roy’s accident and you will probably find that you are basing your move on something somebody told you or something you read in a book, you are stepping into the unknown and taking a chance much as he did.
In short you could teach a monkey to fly a paraglider but it takes a lifetime to read the air unfortunately only the former is obvious to the layman so perhaps rather than slating these people to the press or publically casting aspersions that will only serve to further alienate them maybe we should seek to advise and guide these people ....I’m sure Gordy or Ronnie will appreciate the work.
Have a go and do what you like
Unfortunately Ali the paragliding fraternity does not already possess a particularly great reputation out in the wider public. The total paragliding population can number no more than 6000. with one full time PR man at the BHPA and our own actions as our only means of generating a positive reaction the actions of these 2 fellas have a tremendous impact on the wider publics perception and tolerance of our sport.
The people reading those articles in the chronicle , the journal , the Sunderland echo and daily mail all now have a negative association with paragliding. Those readers include landowners, agents, council members and anyone else who we might have to negotiate the right to fly with. It will also get back to the CAA. I m not saying it will but with all the coverage it s fairly high profile.
It's all very well saying let's have these type of fellas in the system but no one was stopping them in the first place.
Sylvester and holmes may well have done the same thing 20 or 30 years ago but then there was no Bhpa, no schools , no books , no Internet , no clubs. It's not 20 years ago now are we? If this fella Roy could buy the glider of eBay for £300 then he could have searched for clubs and come on a club night as a non member and got advice. People do that when we fly at horden. He could have spent £100 on a fun day with Gordie or Ron or Ian at Northern but he didn't. He could have read the book he bought in full and he didn't. There's a pattern of bad judgements throughout his story.....
As for buying and selling kit off eBay which I ve already been castigated for on a previous thread you would need to include equipment dealers in your little ' we won't sell to anyone' club. I ve bought a number of items from dealers and importers NO QUESTIONS ASKED! They have far more kit to sell than I have.
The people reading those articles in the chronicle , the journal , the Sunderland echo and daily mail all now have a negative association with paragliding. Those readers include landowners, agents, council members and anyone else who we might have to negotiate the right to fly with. It will also get back to the CAA. I m not saying it will but with all the coverage it s fairly high profile.
It's all very well saying let's have these type of fellas in the system but no one was stopping them in the first place.
Sylvester and holmes may well have done the same thing 20 or 30 years ago but then there was no Bhpa, no schools , no books , no Internet , no clubs. It's not 20 years ago now are we? If this fella Roy could buy the glider of eBay for £300 then he could have searched for clubs and come on a club night as a non member and got advice. People do that when we fly at horden. He could have spent £100 on a fun day with Gordie or Ron or Ian at Northern but he didn't. He could have read the book he bought in full and he didn't. There's a pattern of bad judgements throughout his story.....
As for buying and selling kit off eBay which I ve already been castigated for on a previous thread you would need to include equipment dealers in your little ' we won't sell to anyone' club. I ve bought a number of items from dealers and importers NO QUESTIONS ASKED! They have far more kit to sell than I have.
You are only as good as your last flight........
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Sad Northerner
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My interpretation of the article referring to the bloke called Roy was that paragliding is dangerous and especially so if you don’t get training. This, I feel, is an accurate account of our sport and one that should not be kept secret.
Yes the PR may be bad but maybe it will make people who thinking about doing the same reconsider their plans and seek some training instead?
My main concern, however, is about how we react to these types of incidents. Yes we can call him a plonker and remind him about all the things he could have done but this is just being respective and I can’t see how it will help? Consequently if we get in the habit of slating someone whenever they do something stupid then people will stop mentioning there little episodes and we’ll have less information to learn from and that would be a bad thing.
Yes the PR may be bad but maybe it will make people who thinking about doing the same reconsider their plans and seek some training instead?
My main concern, however, is about how we react to these types of incidents. Yes we can call him a plonker and remind him about all the things he could have done but this is just being respective and I can’t see how it will help? Consequently if we get in the habit of slating someone whenever they do something stupid then people will stop mentioning there little episodes and we’ll have less information to learn from and that would be a bad thing.
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Jim Bittlestone
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Storm in a tea cup, in the same vane as climbers and walkers in flip flops, untrained sailors navigating with a road atlas etc. Tomorrows chip paper.
You will always get accidents by adventurous individuals who are prepared to give something a go.
The public are more switched on than you think in my opinion and can see things for what they are.
Half will think 'poor chap, that must have hurt', some will think 'deserved what he got for being daf't, a small percentage will think 'paragliders are all the same, ban the lot of em!'
If the press ask us for information at work, we stick to the facts without names or personal information and try to get a safety bit in too, smoke alarms etc.
If we are to help this situation get better we could do something similar. Ask the BHPA what they advise? Locally we could respond and educate.
Tell the press that training is essential for this sport to be done safely and courses can be had locally in the north. We would always advise using equipment that has been tested and serviced to be airworthy.
Inform, educate and advise.
If nothing is said, we have no impact and miss an oportunity.
One way may help increase awareness of our fantastic sport and encourage more to take it up responsibly, the other way stands back and spectates.
I'm not having a go at anyone here, just feel that with a careful, well thought out response to an accident we could put this message across. We could also respond to accidents by bhpa members by saying that the pilot involved has the correct training, the correct eqipment, but too early to comment on the cause etc.
You will always get accidents by adventurous individuals who are prepared to give something a go.
The public are more switched on than you think in my opinion and can see things for what they are.
Half will think 'poor chap, that must have hurt', some will think 'deserved what he got for being daf't, a small percentage will think 'paragliders are all the same, ban the lot of em!'
If the press ask us for information at work, we stick to the facts without names or personal information and try to get a safety bit in too, smoke alarms etc.
If we are to help this situation get better we could do something similar. Ask the BHPA what they advise? Locally we could respond and educate.
Tell the press that training is essential for this sport to be done safely and courses can be had locally in the north. We would always advise using equipment that has been tested and serviced to be airworthy.
Inform, educate and advise.
If nothing is said, we have no impact and miss an oportunity.
One way may help increase awareness of our fantastic sport and encourage more to take it up responsibly, the other way stands back and spectates.
I'm not having a go at anyone here, just feel that with a careful, well thought out response to an accident we could put this message across. We could also respond to accidents by bhpa members by saying that the pilot involved has the correct training, the correct eqipment, but too early to comment on the cause etc.
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colin keightley
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Might this not be an oportunity to do a little PR and maybe even a little buisness for local PG schools.
Might it be an idea for us to put on a day when people can come and look at the equipment we use a demonstartion ie ground handling and a talk on paragliding to make people aware and see if they will publish it. at least those who are thinking about it can get a poke in the right direction.
Ronny would you be willing to attend and maybe coaches, i would gladly give up a day of my weekend for such an event.
Might it be an idea for us to put on a day when people can come and look at the equipment we use a demonstartion ie ground handling and a talk on paragliding to make people aware and see if they will publish it. at least those who are thinking about it can get a poke in the right direction.
Ronny would you be willing to attend and maybe coaches, i would gladly give up a day of my weekend for such an event.
If Acro was easy they'd call it Cross Country
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colin keightley
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Sad Northerner
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John Wallis
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Well said Jim the club should contact the Journal and ask if they would like a response to the incident and provide information as to how anyone interested in the sport should go about. Plug all the local schools clubs and member contacts. We really shouldn't miss a chance to put a positive side to this bad accident.
accidents
Hi Ali,
Thats your interpretation after being a paraglider for 15 years and knowing what the sport is about. The article in the Journal does not mention training or infer there is any training system involved in paragliding. To Joe Public who dont know anything about the sport this is what we do....
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east ... -26512964/
The Daily Mail article offered more balance and referred to experienced and trained individuals (it has now been edited and includes photographs of the actual flight) maybe thats the one you've seen. Its far more balanced than the reports in local media. The fella had no helmet on either.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ining.html
If you just read the Journal article without any knowledge of the sport it creates a bad impression. Hopefully it will be a lesson to others and Roy Dixon will make a full recovery. I wouldn't wish what happened to him on anyone even the most foolhardy.
It would seem from page 2 of the article on Dave that the press have been trawling the forum for info on him. See below
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east ... -26489997/
I agree some kind of Open Day would be a good idea but we need to do this with advice from the BHPA from a legal and PR point of view.
May well seem like a storm in teacup but the story is in the National press reaching an massive audience compared with Skywings. every cloud has a silver lining so maybe it'll stop people trying the same.
The problem is aviation related incidents are always treated differently in the media compared with flip flop hikers and people falling off mountains.
Thats your interpretation after being a paraglider for 15 years and knowing what the sport is about. The article in the Journal does not mention training or infer there is any training system involved in paragliding. To Joe Public who dont know anything about the sport this is what we do....
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east ... -26512964/
The Daily Mail article offered more balance and referred to experienced and trained individuals (it has now been edited and includes photographs of the actual flight) maybe thats the one you've seen. Its far more balanced than the reports in local media. The fella had no helmet on either.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ining.html
If you just read the Journal article without any knowledge of the sport it creates a bad impression. Hopefully it will be a lesson to others and Roy Dixon will make a full recovery. I wouldn't wish what happened to him on anyone even the most foolhardy.
It would seem from page 2 of the article on Dave that the press have been trawling the forum for info on him. See below
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east ... -26489997/
I agree some kind of Open Day would be a good idea but we need to do this with advice from the BHPA from a legal and PR point of view.
May well seem like a storm in teacup but the story is in the National press reaching an massive audience compared with Skywings. every cloud has a silver lining so maybe it'll stop people trying the same.
The problem is aviation related incidents are always treated differently in the media compared with flip flop hikers and people falling off mountains.
You are only as good as your last flight........
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Sad Northerner
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bill-scott
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maybe the easiest thing to do would be to inform them of the bhpa press offier and get them to comment on these incedents as im sure they will have the right response . if we contact the press ourselves we could be openning a can of worms but whatever we do if its not done within the next day or two the story will have gone cold and they wont be interested but hey maybe that would be fior the best anyway.
I HATE COMPUTERS
I think we need to ask ourselves what we are trying to achieve by this?
To attract new members maybe? ok, if so, is this the right way to go about it?
I don't think it is our job to undertake a PR exercise to counteract the bad publicity from people who aren't club members and bring the sport into disrepute, that should be done at a national level by the BHPA.
Who cares if a few people get a bad impression of paragliding locally they probably weren't going to join our club anyway.
I've had experience from skydiving accidents of dealing with the press and trying to put a positive spin on incidents and educate them on the reality of the situations these were ALWAYS sensationalised and blown out of all proportion and journalists digging the dirt on previous accidents that happened at our club to get a good story and sell more papers It always worked best by doing this through the governing body for the sport (The BPA) who dealt with all PR and incidents.
I think firstly we need to ask ourselves what our objective is and how best to achieve it. I think it is a hard task to change this bad publicity to a positive as a way to attract new members, and I don't think it is our role to do this. Get new members YES but not on the back of bad press. We need to be careful here
To attract new members maybe? ok, if so, is this the right way to go about it?
I don't think it is our job to undertake a PR exercise to counteract the bad publicity from people who aren't club members and bring the sport into disrepute, that should be done at a national level by the BHPA.
Who cares if a few people get a bad impression of paragliding locally they probably weren't going to join our club anyway.
I've had experience from skydiving accidents of dealing with the press and trying to put a positive spin on incidents and educate them on the reality of the situations these were ALWAYS sensationalised and blown out of all proportion and journalists digging the dirt on previous accidents that happened at our club to get a good story and sell more papers It always worked best by doing this through the governing body for the sport (The BPA) who dealt with all PR and incidents.
I think firstly we need to ask ourselves what our objective is and how best to achieve it. I think it is a hard task to change this bad publicity to a positive as a way to attract new members, and I don't think it is our role to do this. Get new members YES but not on the back of bad press. We need to be careful here
Feel the fear and do it anyway!
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gary stenhouse
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funny just thinking there i am sure kay and paul got some video footage of me been pulled up on my 17m2 flysurfer de kite. light onshore wind and 30m lines atached to my harness and arrif and jim ran along when i came off the ground 10feet kay said wait there while i gat my video. so again we went unknown to us the upper wind picked up and as they ran back i catapulted up to the line length of almost 100feet, the guys nearly shit as they were not sure what to do incase i fell out the sky. so after landing safely we decided to try again for good measure. great fun but afterwords realised the dangers so decided got away with it once so never to repeat.
have you got the video kay?
have you got the video kay?
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gary stenhouse
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i am a firm beleiver that there is no such thing as bad press, when did people stop drinking when they say its dangerous. when did kisd stop having sex as its not good, when did teenagers stop smoking as its dangerous. all the scare story will always put those who would not consider doing it in the first place however for others it will bring to there attention and they will be all the more up for it.
when they get the eclusive and holywoods kocking on the door i would not give a shite if they call me a nutter a numpty or whatever as i am happy with what do and dont realy care what others think. the only reason bad pr would bother me is from the sites point of you and there perspective
cheers gary
when they get the eclusive and holywoods kocking on the door i would not give a shite if they call me a nutter a numpty or whatever as i am happy with what do and dont realy care what others think. the only reason bad pr would bother me is from the sites point of you and there perspective
cheers gary
Boder T.V. 'Lookaround' had what I thought was a very well balanced report about this incident this evening. There IPlayer has not been updated yet but here is the link when it does gets refreshed: http://www.itv.com/border/fullprogramme/
Aritcle is in the last third of the progamme. Pretty good example of why 'static towing' is a band practise under the BHPA rules.
Aritcle is in the last third of the progamme. Pretty good example of why 'static towing' is a band practise under the BHPA rules.
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Neil
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I bet if we all put some effort and thought in we could master static flying. Just think windy blown out day big tree. I’m hard thinkinking about it 12 hours of air time thrashed from pillar to post. We could start a new league. Each team could have a name. The longer you spend in the sky without being killed gets you points. If we pick a tree on its own all wind directions could be flown. Who knows you could fly for days. Don’t forget to pack a mars bar.
never waste a hard on and don't trust a fart
According to the founder of this new exciting sport the refreshing beverage is also an essential part of the experiance, Neil. Apparently it can build quite a thirst up there and its nice to pause for thought, take in the scenery and gather ones thoughts whist taking a bite and a refreshing drink.
Everything in moderation, including moderation.
