hg comp confirmed though looks top end

[gary stenhouse]

well the forecasts are looking windyer than today and cloudier. yet today the wind was off to the north and quite light also was blazing sunshine allday so you just never know.

plans are to be at the top off cross fell for no later than 12.00 probabl nearer to 11.30.

i will go any way unless the weather turns realy bad so lets keep the fingers crossed and with a bit of luck we may get something out of the day

cheers gary

[gary stenhouse]

well looking good so picking ron don at westerhope at 9.45 so any one needs a lift to or up the hill just give me a shout

Early doors will be over cast so a ridge task, if theres wind then a challenge is to launch from the shoulder and soar up to the top for top landing.

Then north to radars and back?

Then depending on conditions the challenge is distance infront of High cap, judged on gps) BUT you have to return OVER takeoff to score...........

a couple of sugestions see you on the hill only me and ron in the car so far

cheers gary

[John Wallis]

Looks too windy for paragliding but you might just?? have good hang gliding conditions. Airmet are giving 20 knots at 1000 feet See you there later to enjoy the spectacle.

[milleboy]

Sorry to add to the gloom...but it's raining in keswick right now.

[gary stenhouse]

well we arrived at 11.30 to see dave porteus flying with lots of height in good strong ridge lift, his only problem staying out of cloud.

not inspired we sat around to see if conditions improved and strangely they did the winds lightened and the clous base lifted.

by the time we all got rigged that is the four of us me wendy dave hume steve gill ron don was flight in nice left.

task was declared based on the low base and safety, kirkland was are start gate followed by max olc 3 turn point. so the gat opened with me first of the hill thinking where is the bloody lift only getting max o37m ato

steve took straight off after me and we were flying nicely but no lift then i hit sink and had no option other than to land with light wind and no definate direction i opted for the upslope down by the last gate and must say with a fast ground speed on approach i was a bitt worried but with lots of speed and a good flair i was down safely. steve followd with the same.

up top wendy decided to go for it and managed to get to wild boar and get some height and went for the start gate, but was left short and landed neer the sheep pens inbetween the gates.

still put the glider away and got a lift back up top and had a boat about on the pg and done my good sammariton bit for a stricken pilot where he had turned into the hill. luckily he was ok and we got hime down safely.

back to the comp wendy won fair and square though i think wendy feels that it was not validated so this beeing the case the comp will be extended to sunday coming.

cheers gary

[John Wallis]

What a strange place Cross Fell is. I set off from home around 13.00 with only my walking kit as the trees were bending and the sky was heavy. Driving past Alston I almost turned back as it looked so grim even for a stiff walk. But as often happens it was quite different once over Hartside, not brilliant but better. Parked the car at Kirkland and started walking up the track, couldn't see anyone and there was no one flying. I neared the top to see a paraglider take off I was surprised as I expected quite a stiff wind gradient but no! Then the hang gliders started to take off ...Then the wind dropped even further and they went down This area is a law unto itself. The forecast looked blown out. Anyway here's a few photos from the day.

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/jw.wallis/RecentlyUpdated#

[gordie]

The sky was full of wave this weekend and I suspect this is why you had conditions which struck you as strange at Cross Fell. The weather is never strange, if you think that then you haven't put all the parts of the puzzle together and need to keep looking.

Saturday had a strong inversion at around 800m with the layered stratus clound being held under it in the morning, in the lakes there was clear lining up of this cloud sheet in a wave formation. As the warmth of the day built up the dew point reached higher in the atmosphere and cloud base went up. Due to the strong inversion once the dew point got to the 800m level no air could get above this and the day started to 'blue out'. At this stage the wave patteren and spacing of the clouds became much clearer to see and as less cloud became present one could see the thickerning of the haze on the inversion where the wave was pushing air upwards. All this created brilliant flying at low sites like Bewaldeth were there was lots of room before the inversion but pooer flying on the higher hills nearer to the inversion height. Infact all my students including first day students had atleast 3 hrs air time with one chap doing 24 flights and getting more then 5hrs in.

Sunday the air was at lower pressure and the inversion was not really present. However the sky was still full of low level wave with the clouds again lining up and showing this. We flew at a windy Lowca and the later in wave at Bewaldeth, making for very choopy 'cobble stone' flying low down and then smooth/lifty but windy flying higher up.

Hope this helps you suss out better the conditions you had at X fell.

[ron freeman]

The Cheviots on Sunday were a bit strange as well John, low level wave as far as the eye could see.

At times in faze on the hill & then out of faze, very windy also had to stop teaching hanggliding for a while it became too gusty.

Have flown this area for over 35 yrs now and still learning all the time.

[Jim Bittlestone]

been climbing, sailing etc for over 30 years, never met anyone who has said they knew exactly what the weather was doing all the time. Weather can be strange and its honest to say so i reckon?

[gary stenhouse]

The theories off cross fell could be even more complex or even simple
When we drive over to cross fell via Hartside cafe we find the wind there is very strong and generally not flyable. Yet by the time we get to cross fell it nearly always is.

My theory is simple Hartside is 1900 ft amsl and is the highest point before the hill drops away, with 2 higher hills either side creating a funnel effect. High cap where we take off is only 1650 feet amsl, but directly behind is cross fell itself at 2970 feet amsl. My theory is that the wind is blocked at the front of the hill by the back of the hill creating a compression zone leaving the winds light in front. Though as long as you stay at 1600 to 2000 stay forward of the hill you should be fine, go too far back and high and you will be blown out the back. This is not a one off at cross fell it is every time no matter what the weather, whatever the reason, as long as you respect the hill and fly with the necessary skill and knowledge then you should be fine. I have now flown this hill more than any other, yet I have never even in 20-30 on the hg found that it is turbulent other than top landing.
Whatever the reason lets all fly safe and remember why we fly, and that is for enjoyment and pleasure, not too scare are selves senseless.

Cheers Gary

[John Wallis]

My theory is that the wind is blocked at the front of the hill by the back of the hill creating a compression zone leaving the winds light in front.

?

[gordie]

been climbing, sailing etc for over 30 years, never met anyone who has said they knew exactly what the weather was doing all the time. Weather can be strange and its honest to say so i reckon?

You should of learnt with me Jim and I may have improved your knowledge of the weather as I do with all my clients, just ask any of my old students (including John) about my morning weather briefings which start on the first morning of lessons. After last weekend all my students are now aware not only of airs stability and enviromental lapse rates but the effect that that will (not maybe) have on thermals and other forms of lift, aswell as effects on compression areas over ridge lines or higher gullies.

Our weather is controlled by the laws of physics and these can not be bent, well not on earth anyway. As I said earlyer the weather is never strange if you think this then you do not fully understand what is going on and need to look in more detail. Other wise you may convince yourself to fly without a full understanding of what is happening and may get a ride you did not intend to take! All you need to do is turn your eyes skywards and have a think about it and eventually everything will fall into place, if you do not understand and think its 'strange' then keep looking.

One think to note is that free flying is the only true sport which gives you a full understanding of the weather as we deal with the atmosphere in 3D (vertical air movements aswell as horizontal). Other sports, mountainering , sailing e.t.c. deal much more basicly and are only interested in horizontal movements (fronts, pressures systems e.t.c.) An example of this thinking is in the way that the British Mountainering Council on their avalanche awairness courses round lapse rates off to a point between the 'Dry (1 degree C for every 100m height) and Saturated (0.5 C of a degree for 100m of height) Coming up with a figure of 0.75 degree for lapse rates at all points, which is obviously wrong. They also take little if any notice of the enviromental lapse rates for different met conditions (high and low pressures). I qualified through the RYA as a sailing instructor and have done (some years ago) my Yachtmasters course and again their instruction of weather knowledge was limited.

So my advice for whats its worth is do not try and cross previous weather knowledge one might have onto free flying but start form scratch looking at each days enviromental lapse rate and airs stability and then place the other parts of the puzzel into the equation and hopefully you will come up with a good understanding of whats happening thst will take you higher and further then those people sat on the gorund scratching their heads

As for Cross Fell, I have only flown it a couple of times but please see a link to a summary of a flight I had a couple of years ago which also involved wave: http://nhpc.org.uk/nhpc/viewtopic.php?t ... sc&start=0

[GlennP]

aswell as effects on compression areas over ridge lines or higher gullies

That word COMPRESSION shows that you don't know it all Gordie.


When airflow is forced through a constriction (narrow valley, gully or over an obstacle) the airflow velocity increases to satisfy the equation of continuity and the pressure DECREASES (ie there is the exact opposite of compression) due to conservation of energy principles and the pressure gradient balances the gain in kinetic energy.

I keep hearing the compression word by people who really should know better.


Keep on learning

[gary stenhouse]

Weather, My Nana used to say to me look out the window son and you shall see what you will get.

However technical the weather can be, it still does what it wants and we fly when we can fly.

Weather is still only a prediction not an exact science, no matter what they say.

If they say it’s going to be 5mph winds and yet it is 30 on the hill you cannot go back to the weather men and say, hoy you got the wind wrong and I have just wasted 20 quids worth of fuel and I want a refund.

As the reply will be nature will do what nature will do. You can learn as much as you can about predicting the weather, yet you cannot change the weather.

If only carling did weather

Cheers Gary

[Mikey Harper]

Glenn,

Can you expand on your commet that 'the pressure DECREASES (ie there is the exact opposite of compression) due to conservation of energy principles and the pressure gradient balances the gain in kinetic energy.'? I can't find Gordie's quote that you refer to so don't know the full background to the discussion. I understand the equation of continuity but don't follow it from there at the moment.

Thanks

Mike

[GlennP]

Try a web search for bernoulli or venturi effect. It's also the same principle as the pressure drop across the top surface of an aerofoil or the thumb on a hose pipe.

There will be diagrams and allsorts on the web.



Gordie s quote is from an earlier post on this thread.

But aren't all these laws of physics just theories that fit the observations based on what we know today.