Please Help! Urgent assistance required!!!

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:36 pm

HI Guys and girls, you may remember me from the vamp debarcle! I am now possibly in desperate need of a beginners wing.

I was looking at a u-turn infinity (mk1) for the princely sum of £1000.. I have just read the last arofix report (from may 08) and it has the following notes!

Sticky repair to leading edge, sewn sticky repair to the RHS tip.

Also porosity of:

Top surface, centre 63 tip 80
Bottom surface, centre 35 tip 150.

Now I am no expert but this seems to me to be a wing close to the end of its useful life and I think that for a grand I should be able to get something quite decent?

The real issue is that I am going on holiday, a week tomorrow to try to complete my training and need a wing for this! So time is somewhat critical!

Any thoughts suggestions much appreciated!!!! I do know that I am somewhat to blame for this as I was hoping to check out the wing weeks ago but have been waiting for a decent opportunity to have a test flight. Oh and any sales should be to suit a 67kg neked bloke with full kit!

Thanks people!

Sad Northerner · Post by **Sad Northerner** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:19 pm

I think Ian Miskin might have a suitable wing for you though I'm not sure of the price. It's a Gin Belero and would be perfect for you providing the price and the weight suite.

Ali

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:42 pm

Hi Ali,

Thanks for the info that sounds reasonable.

Am I correct in my assumptions about price vs the test results?

It is primarily the porosity that worries me, the results seem to really indicate that the wing is not going to last many more hours at all. Not having seen any other test reports leaves me at a disadvantage here, but does that seem reasonable to those of you with more experiance than I?

Post by **colin keightley** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:03 pm

Ive just bought a 2004 Sport 2 DHV 1/2 for £550 the bottom surface porosity readings were 360 plus I think. A grand for the wing you have described is far too much.

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:14 pm

Cheers Colin! Think i'll look elsewhere.....

Post by **gary stenhouse** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:23 pm

well as i once had a sigma 6 100 carefull hours always left dry and sounf yet porosity readings were far worse then that above. and advance are classed as the rols royce of the pg world. figurescan be misleading if the wing looks very clean well packed etc dont base too much on the results.

the wing that geaff wilson has could be a bargain for you if your under 110 all up weight.

cheers gary

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:46 pm

Hi Gary,

Arrrrr, things never are black and white hey!

Okay, so maybe its not that bad......That is actually quite reasuring!

But I do rather fancy that P44! It does look like a bit of a steal as well!

So maybe if I can get hold of Geoff, I could be looking at a complete rig/rack/pack, tommorrow evening!

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:53 pm

Ooo and as an aside....

I have just got my BHPA membership through....

Do I really need to stick that sticker on me helmet? Ta.

Post by **colin keightley** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:58 pm

I havnt if they want to know when my membership runs out I'll show them my card.

Post by **colin keightley** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:10 pm

gary stenhouse wrote: figurescan be misleading if the wing looks very clean well packed etc dont base too much on the results.
cheers gary

I know I am only new at this game but that cant be right. If the prosity was 360 new or 6mins which is the benchmark for the material new. Then surely a porosity of 30 - 60 in the center of the wing which really we do rely upon the most, means that fabric has deteriorated quite a lot no matter how clean and dry you have it. I think aerofix recomend a minimum of 5 porosity but I was looking at this just last week before I bought my wing some manufacturers suggest the material is at the end of its life at 15. Im affraid I wouldnt by a wing just on the credit of how clean it is and how few creases it had.

Perhaps someone on this forum has a more informed opinion on this subject. Maybe someone from the trade who has worked with porosity readings or second hand wing resale.

crook_101 · Post by **crook_101** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:33 pm

Not to tread on anyone's toes, you could try one of our sponsors - Steve at the Sick and Wrong - link on the home page.........he will sell you what you need and he won't sell you what is not suitable - can't say any fairer than that except that he is a great guy.

I have no involvment or any business relationship with the S&W, if i did i wouldn't have posted here. (10% will do Steve for commision purposes

)

Ian

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:29 pm

I think that i'm not going to get the infinity as there definatly seem to be better options out there (though these are both mid end DHV 1/2....)

1) Geoffs P44 (85-110kg! oh why not the 75 - 100kg!)which seems perfect....except that I am right on the absolute bottom of the weight range and maybe a kilo under depending on whether I have had breakfast and take a drink up!

2) The swing arcus 4 (80 - 105kg) from S&W where I am definatly in the lower weight range but will definatly be inside the all up range.....but this wing has another couple of days flight and is not only a year old!

I appreciate that I am taking a rather simplistic view to purchasing a wing but as I can't really test one out I think this is the only approach available to me.

I have flow a wing that was rated 10-15 kilo above my all up weight for that day (a rather iritating mix up with wing and bags!) and to be fair I didn't really notice a difference from the correctly rated wing but these were both school wings so....

Ultimatly I would love to hear an opinions that you guys have about which is the most suitable wing. I will be speaking to my instructor and hopefully Steve tomorrow, but as ever all of your opinions are very much welcomed.

Thanks

John Wallis · Post by **John Wallis** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:53 pm

Ultimatly I would love to hear an opinions that you guys have about which is the most suitable wing. I will be speaking to my instructor and hopefully Steve tomorrow, but as ever all of your opinions are very much welcomed.

I hope it's not the same instructor that suggested your harness.

If you are brand new to flying/paragliding Ali Guthrie has already pointed you in the right direction.(The most experienced paraglider pilot in the club) Ian Miskin's wife has her Gin Bollero for sale which I know will be in good condition and will probably be in your weight range. This is a great safe glider to learn your trade on and you will always be able to sell it on in the future. Look no further! The trouble is reading the help you got about picking a harness and ignored it I'm not sure why you're bothering asking about what wing to buy. You'll probably do your own thing and end up wasting money and buying the wrong wing. Sorry to be so blunt but that's how I see it from the postings.

Post by **colin keightley** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:01 pm

Remember the weight range of the wing is all up weight thats you+clothes+harness+wing+reserve+instruments+helmet my naked weight is 86KG but with all my gear on my back im 108KG and as for the Swing I was told to fly mine heavy as in over the middle of the weight range that was on a Mistral 2 I dont know if all Swings are the same I think Neil had the same wing as the one you mentioned so he would probably know.

Post by **colin keightley** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:06 pm

I think this is where you have gone wrong.

spenkyg wrote:The real issue is that I am going on holiday, a week tomorrow to try to complete my training and need a wing for this! So time is somewhat critical!

Really you shouldnt rush into buying a wing. You will either end up paying over the odds, get a wing that isnt suitable or even one that your not really in the best weight range as some wings do have some strange behaviour with pilots in the bottom of the weight range.

ron freeman · Post by **ron freeman** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:09 pm

Hi, don't forget your local school 'Northumbrian Airsports' always willing to help anyone on the hill or the phone...

Best to buy what you were trained on 'it makes sense' and that includes the harness !

gordie · Post by **gordie** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:56 am

Just a point to concider. I would be very carefull about buying a DHV 1/2 wing at this early stage in your flying, especially as you are going to attach yourself to it with a comp harness! This combination will make an already potentially twitchy wing even more so. For my clients I only ever recommend anything above a DHV 1 for the naturally gifted or previously experienced (Hang Glider pilots e.t.c.)

Another point are you going on holiday with a school? surely the course cost covers use of the schools wings, can't you take one of these on holiday with you and buy when you have more time on your return.

p.s. the U turn sounds over priced to me by around £4-500 (I think the buyer has seen you coming

)

brian day · Post by **brian day** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:51 pm

There are a few points which are a little concerning to hear.
You are obviously a keen and eager learner.
We are all keen and eager to fly, but something which you will develop with time is patience. Maybe it's waiting for the right day to go XC, maybe just a day to get in the air, maybe a day to go out and do a special flight. This really is a waiting game, that's why, when everything comes together, it's so special!
My concern is, that as a new pilot, you are at the moment not very patient, I remember the times well.
You should only consider one 'new' aspect to your flying at once, but here you are thinking of attaching a new harness to a new wing and flying in a foreign country on a new site!
You are thinking of putting a comp harness onto a DHV1-2 wing. You will at best frighten yourself and put yourself off flying before you start, at worst,,,,,well lets not think of that here, although you should!
I would say if you want to be a safe and successful pilot, leave your kit at home and use the school equipment, get your qualification, buy another harness, buy a DHV1 wing, take the advice you are given.
Then when you have experience, you can make your own decisions based on your own judgment.
I feel that I am probably pissing into the wind, but if you take one piece of advice, it's better than none and it may make a difference.

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:13 pm

Alright all,

thanks for your comments and suggestions so far!

First off I feel that its important to say that I acept that I have some reposnsibility for being in this prediciment (ie needing a wing with immediate effect) but unfortunatly the problem remains that I NEED a wind before I go out on wednesday morning. If I don't get a wing it is now too late to hire ....

I may as well buy one of the old budget (sub £400 ) wings from S&W and after I get a decent wing use it for ground handling...

I wish this wasn't the case but it is.

Ultimatly I must either take my own wing or not fly. If I don't fly i have wasted well over a grand and probably not then be able to afford to continue with my dreams of flying!

I am looking into both the bolero and the ozone buzz (as i'm just too small for the p44) are there any other suggestions for the more gifted learner!

Post by **colin keightley** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:52 pm

How are you too small for the P44

What weight are you fully clothed

Post by **colin keightley** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:56 pm

Check out these specs the wing geoff is selling is aimed at a 68KG naked pilot http://www.para2000.org/wings/paratech/p44.html

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:03 pm

Hey up Colin,

Yeah about that.....

Geoff is selling the ML (85-110kg) not the SL (75-100kg ie bloody perfect!!!)

Broke my heart it did! It was literally the last thing that i remeberd to ask about and it took me the night trying to think of ways to add 5kg or so!!!!

Woe is me!!!

Though Geoff has mentioned an old Apco for sale so I now have a back up plan! There are a couple of wings on the flybubble site that look okay too.

What are peoples opinions of wind tech, they do some nice DHV 2's.............

And of course some DHV 1's that i'm looking at!

AlastairW · Post by **AlastairW** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:02 pm

spenkyg wrote: it took me the night trying to think of ways to add 5kg or so!!!!

Woe is me!!!

How about half a gallon of water?

And it will make you much fitter walking up Blease!

Jim Bittlestone · Post by **Jim Bittlestone** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:13 pm

Hi Spenckg,
I have pm'd you,
Jim

crook_101 · Post by **crook_101** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:57 pm

AlastairW wrote:
spenkyg wrote: it took me the night trying to think of ways to add 5kg or so!!!!

Woe is me!!!
How about half a gallon of water?

And it will make you much fitter walking up Blease!

I have found it much more beneficial to carry vodka - if you can't fly at least you can have a drink.......

crook_hiccup_101

spenkyg · Post by **spenkyg** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:08 pm

Hi all,

Firstly I would really like to thank you all for the advice, offers of wings and suggestions to resolve my problems.

I am now the proud owner of a full paragliding kit comprising:

Apco mayday 16 reserve
Swing arcus 4 80-105kg
and........

a Sup air Altix harness!

Oh and loads of other nylon bags for various very similar purposes!

So I can finally now start looking forward to going to Morroco, and boy am I! It has been a really stressful past couple of days and you have all helped so much in this all coming togther to this succesful conclusion, so thanks again!

I look faorward to seeing you all on a hill soon, and of course in the pub where I guess its my round!

NHPC Private and Public Forum

Please Help! Urgent assistance required!!!

Please Help! Urgent assistance required!!!

Re: Please Help! Urgent assistance required!!!

Northumbria Airsports - your local school

Update

Thanks and goodnight!