I was on top of the world untill I tried to download my log

[colin keightley]

Well I have just had my best flight so far and found out my GPS although ON was not recording DOH!!!

So just for the record I flew

Horden takeoff with the wind well of to the south
then down to foxholes peaking at 360ftamsl
back to horden
back to foxholes
back to horden
back to foxholes (then thought I'll give easington a try knowing I couldnt return)
made it easy so kept going got a bit shaky when I got to hawthorn and turned downwind for a run to the face that would be working with ronny's voice in the back of my head ("just get into to the ridge the lift will be there trust me)and boom back up
Should have done a couple of beats there but didnt as I was on a high whent round the corner for dawdon and thats where the trap door to hell opened.
Dashed down the ridge and when I dropped below it I hit a load of turbulance and it felt like I was virtually downwind I was trying to keep it tight in but it wasnt working but I was only sinking slowly then before I knew it I hit turbulance and my left riser went loose and started turning towards the ridge I dont know why but it didnt shock me and slowly pulled right brake to pull me away from the ridge a little and I regained tension in the left riser I didnt look up at the wing as I had way too much going on.
Tried to pull it back into the ridge but it wasnt working then realised SH*T im too low to turn it back into wind as at this point into wind was at about 140deg to my right or more so manged to steer onto a soft band away from rocks and ran it off cross wind.

I enjoyed it beyond my beleif

But I feel its the first of many

And a big thanks to Alan Westmoreland for coming to my rescue and playing retreive

[Mike Brown]

Take it steady please Colin. When I left Horden at 17.30hrs it was well top end and way off to the South. May have dropped off but dont see the point of risking things round those cliffs at your stage. Please dont follow the others like Lemmings that have this desperation of flying to Seaham for some reason. Just enjoy being in the air.
Cheers mate. Stay safe!
Mike

[colin keightley]

I managed to self launch so I didnt think the wind strength was too bad and most of it was prety easy like I say I was too eager to jump into dawdon not realising it was so far out of the wind I should have stayed at hawthorn and worked up my height or maybe even landed at hawthorn.

[gordie]

Don't really know these sites so excuse for my ignorance. Sounds as if you are trying to fly XC up and down the coast Colin, be carefull. I have witnessed many low airtime pilots over the years get it wrong trying to do what they consider to be easy ridge runs at coastal sites. The classic way is that they fly around headland and off onto a slope or cliff out of wind and in rotor. Often ending up in a nasty crash or worse in the sea reliant on rescue. Nearly all the fatal accidents over the years paraglding in the u.k. have been pilots who have drowned at coastal sites.

One more point pilots should only be flying XC once they have gained their pilot rating, having a number of hours experience and acquiring the air law and other relevant knowledge to pass the exam. Flying XC on a CP licence means your BHPA insurance is technically invalid and if you were to have an accident would probably not pay out. Also if the CAA ever did get involved in an investigation they would not look kindly on a unqualified (cp rated) pilot flying XC.

[Dave Hume]

....and don't worry about not getting it on the GPS Colin. The flight is what counts and that you enjoyed it......and everyone except Fingers will still believe you

[Fingers]

Yep, the coast is full of un suspecting dangers, I never feel safe over water.

Go in the water, your going to die.

[John Wallis]

Bet you wished you'd never bother posting the flight now Colin. I'm sure all the comments are in your best interest. Flying a duvet is a risk at the best of times add rotor and turbulence................

[colin keightley]

Don't really know these sites so excuse for my ignorance. Sounds as if you are trying to fly XC up and down the coast Colin, be carefull. I have witnessed many low airtime pilots over the years get it wrong trying to do what they consider to be easy ridge runs at coastal sites. The classic way is that they fly around headland and off onto a slope or cliff out of wind and in rotor. Often ending up in a nasty crash or worse in the sea reliant on rescue. Nearly all the fatal accidents over the years paraglding in the u.k. have been pilots who have drowned at coastal sites.

I never once before hand thought it would be easy and each step was taken with caution and I suppose easy would be the wrong wording I suppose I should have said a challange but not extremely challanging.

As for water landings the only places I allowed myself to go below ridge top was where there were beaches to land on. The areas where there were no beach there is ample top landing if I felt it was not working then I would have called it a day but the conditions I thought were really good as the areas of difficulty in an easterly were made easier by the wind being off to the south.

But yes I made a mistake going into dawdon low I beleive I handled the situation well though and if anyone thinks otherwise then please let me know if anyone would have handled it differently.

Im sure not all of you can say you have never hit rotor or turbulance. And im sure those who have have learnt to better handle the situation or how better to avoid it.

But this really now has me thinking was I stupid in flying the coast.

I wonder what wendy thought of the conditions yesterday

[colin keightley]

Bet you wished you'd never bother posting the flight now Colin. I'm sure all the comments are in your best interest. Flying a duvet is a risk at the best of times add rotor and turbulence................

Yeah I do kind of regret it. I was hopping for advice and pointers rather than ppl die and all that crap im not ignorant I know it happens and i know why it happens I am very safety concious but its a loose loose situation I go to an inland site and ppl tell me not good for a low airtimer cause its thermic go to the coast then I go to the coast and im told im gonna drown i cant win.

[ron freeman]

Its good that you posted your flight, yourself and others will learn from your experience.

Pleased Gordie mentioned that everyone should be 'Pilot rated' before going XC... I get shot down if I mention this fact !

To pass any comment about your flight I will need to see a gps trace of the flight...or go over a map with you explaning the whole flight.

I bet this was a huge learning curve for you and not a flight you would like to repeat ! unless you had lots more height or gave the headlands a wider berth !

Coastal ridge runs can be very technical at times on this stretch of coastline and not just for the low airtimer... I know this is your home site but in a few years time you will look back and say to yourself
'today that flight is not on'

[Bob Sutherland]

The fact that Colin recognises why it went pear shape is the important part is it not?
A student who walks away without the understanding of the incident is the one to worry about.
I'm confident that a majority of pilots in their first year have had an "oh shit" experience, but never made it public. Any new pilots reading Colins' post will learn from this.

As for landing in water? Having done the Eastbourne pier jump with Ronnie a couple of years ago it has made me aware of the almost impossible task of getting "out and clear"

[Wendy Patterson]

Yesterday flying at horden I found the conditions to be quite strong and well off to the south albeit smooth and soarable on the into wind sections. With this in mind and aware of keeping an eye on the wind strength I set off for Seaham. Fortunatly my new vario now reads ground speed which is so handy as I felt at times it was a little gale dangly but never had the need to use speed bar and I always had some forward ground speed.

Not being the most confident pilot on the coast as I have a fear of flying over water, was a relief to see as I flew along toward seaham there were plenty of options to land on the beach if necessary. But at every into wind section I gained as much height as possible approx 200ft to reduce the possiblity of lee-side rotor and accessed every down wind leg from the headland making sure i cut the corner off as the wind direction that day would certainly cause severe rotor behind them. Remember having a landing option is only useful if you can reach it which isn't the case it the wing collapes over the water.

I think you may have been a little eager to reach Seaham, had you taken more time to gain extra height before jumping each section and never fly behind the headland it should not happen. You seamed to have good height the last time I saw you but didnt see you land and I presumed you had flown back to take off.

One last thing worth a mention I would also recommend you always fly with others especially on the coast as Colin was a little concerned when he left to retreive me that you were flying alone. Imagine the scenario! you pile in on the beach and unable to move you're left to the mercy of the tide with no one around to help!

I don't think this should put you off coastal flying but use the experiance to learn from your mistakes and this will eventually make you a better pilot. My advise is also similar to Gordies work towards your pilot rating by trying the pilot tasks and read up on the theory as its easier to learn when your new to the sport and things are fresh in your mind.

[colin keightley]

Cheers wendy I agree

I certainly should have had more height at chourdon point I just got caught up in evrything.

Flying with others though is certainly a difficult thing to acheive when you work 6 days a week and cant get to the site till 7pm so it usually means im on my tod but someone always know my intentions before I leave the house.

I would also like to mention that i think wendy is in the middle of the weight range for her wing and I am right on the top weight of mine which is why I may have misread the wind strength as I didnt reall have much problem penetrating into wind. Flying with min sink on the big stuff at foxholes to see how high I could go and still had forward groundspeed.

But yes there has certainly been a leason learnt

[Fingers]

I was hopping for advice and pointers rather than ppl die and all that crap im not ignorant

First off I was just stating my own feelings about flying the coast, however just as an exercise for yourself stick a couple of cells of your wing (not strapped in) in some water, and see how heavy it gets, SCARY!!

I know it happens and i know why it happens

"I know why" !!!! this is quite a bold statement.

YOU DON'T WHY.... you no nothing.

Your sounding quite cock sure Colin, you are on a very very gradual learning curve and you need to realise you know less than nothing, when you think you do know "why" after 100 hours, you still know nothing.

People are giving you the benefit of there wisdom, you can use this as you wish. I personally soak as much of it up as possible and hope some of it sinks in, but there is no substitute for experience and time in the air.

[dave-mclaughlin]

however just as an exercise for yourself stick a couple of cells of your wing (not strapped in) in some water, and see how heavy it gets, SCARY!!

Just to illustrate how scary, a bit of maths.....

Surface area of a paraglider is about 30 square metres. If you assume an average thickness across the whole wing of say 50cm, then that give a volume of 15 cubic metres.
15 cubic metres of water weighs 15 tonnes, so worst case scenario is you are in the sea, out of your depth, under your wing, with a 15 tonne weight holding you down. Then look at the bum protector on the harness. That'll be full of air, so if you are strapped in the harness, you will be upside down, face held under water, with a 15 tonne weight holding you down.

[brian day]

Interesting thought Dave, but the water will only have that relative weight in air. As it is 'in' the water it will have no relative weight. Sort of like having your wellies full of water, the only effect it will have on you is when you get out of the water, whilst in the water there is no effect.
Still wouldn't enjoy being upside down in the harness, the main problem would be entanglement. I've caught on a gill net while windsurfing, it was terrifying!!! I've also been 'caught' by a shark fishing boat by a hook and line, that was an interesting few moments as well. Neither activity to be recommended, like wise swimming with paragliders.

[Mike Brown]

A lot of good stuff on here on this topic but as long as this club has people who are obsessed with trying to get from Crimdon to Seaham at all costs for points on a league then lesser experienced pilots will follow and think it is OK for them to do likewise. Some days are black runs and some days are green runs! Just steady away and learn to choose a green one as you are doing by talking about it.
Cheers
Mike

[John Wallis]

While we are on the topic of water landings a point picked up while doing the SIV. If you are unlucky enough to land in the drink land down wind so the canopy overflies you and might save the nightmare of it coming down on top of you.

[colin keightley]

Just to illustrate how scary, a bit of maths.....

Surface area of a paraglider is about 30 square metres. If you assume an average thickness across the whole wing of say 50cm, then that give a volume of 15 cubic metres.
15 cubic metres of water weighs 15 tonnes, so worst case scenario is you are in the sea, out of your depth, under your wing, with a 15 tonne weight holding you down. Then look at the bum protector on the harness. That'll be full of air, so if you are strapped in the harness, you will be upside down, face held under water, with a 15 tonne weight holding you down.

Sod all that as with all my flying clothes on and my boots Id sink anyway as im not a strong swimmer.

But i could end up in the water anywhere on the coast not just the run to seham so wheres all this coming from I ask.

[colin keightley]

While we are on the topic of water landings a point picked up while doing the SIV. If you are unlucky enough to land in the drink land down wind so the canopy overflies you and might save the nightmare of it coming down on top of you.

My understanding of a water landing is unclip totally and like you said downwind so that the wing overflies you and lands cell opening first so you can try and trap air into it but im probably just talkin sh*t fingers and being too cocky

In my flight there wasnt an imenant danger of me ending in the water the only near incident that occured was nearly crashing on the beach in rotor

[Mike Brown]

But i could end up in the water anywhere on the coast not just the run to seham so wheres all this coming from I ask.

Those that care about your safety. Some do, some don't. Some speak out, some don't! Some listen and take notice, some don't!
You seem sensible enough to me Colin just take it steady is all im saying mate. Enjoy being in the Air, no need to push these little cliff runs too far they often end in teers!
See you there later????
Cheers
Mike

[colin keightley]

"I know why" !!!! this is quite a bold statement.

YOU DON'T WHY.... you no nothing.

Your sounding quite cock sure Colin, you are on a very very gradual learning curve and you need to realise you know less than nothing, when you think you do know "why" after 100 hours, you still know nothing.

People are giving you the benefit of there wisdom, you can use this as you wish. I personally soak as much of it up as possible and hope some of it sinks in, but there is no substitute for experience and time in the air.

Fingers I know you have a bit of time on your hands having made a misjudgement of your own recently but stop reading too much into what im saying. Im not saying that it would never happen to me but I would say I limit the chances. Wherever there was water beneath me there was at least 150ft between me and ridge top so if I lost the lift that was where I was going.

Just because im a low airtimer doesnt mean im an ignorant idiot I dont have that im invincible thing going on as I got rid of that last year when I hurt my ankle.

[colin keightley]

cheers mike sound advice

[Fingers]

I don't think anyone has said your an ignorant idiot.

People are spending their time to offer you the benefit of wisdom, they don't have to do that, they could just not give a fcuk.

Take it easy man, you appear to be jumping down peoples throats.

[Dave Hume]

Colin

Perhaps you should change the title of this thread to "I was on Top of the World Until I posted on this Forum"

Dave

[Dave Hume]

Take it easy man, you appear to be jumping down peoples throats.

Which of course is something you could never be accused of Steve.......

[Fingers]

Hence the reason I recongnise it, you arsehole.

[gordie]

Aye up, this is better then 'Clinton and Obama' any day!

Seriously though please don't take my previous comments wrongly. Over the years I have witness many incidences of bad flying and the accidents which duly occur. Initially I would say nothing for the fear of being told to 'Feak Off', however after witnessing the aftermath on many occasions and hating myself for not atleast saying something I now feel duty bound to try and point pilots in the right direction. Previous post I have made on this forum are testament of this.

One of the most dangerous times in anybody's flying carrier is as they build hours and confidence up after qualifying. Some pilots are naturally cautious and under confident, others are the opposite and will learn through their own experiences and hopefully not to many close shaves. Trying to get the balance right can be tricky, but statically its the ones who chose push themselves that end up filling in the accident reports. However I concede they are probably the ones who will make the next world champions.

Bottom line is keep it safe. The coast can seem such easy flying but if things go wrong you generally have very little time, room and height to sort it out. As you get lower on sea cliffs the lift will generally drop of quickly leaving ones options narrowing very quickly. If you do avoid the sea then the shoreline especially below the cliffs we love to fly can be treacherously slippy and full of rock pools, throw in the often turbulent air at the base of a cliff and you have one very difficult landing. Inland there are dangers to but providing you stay away from power lines e.t.c. nothing is quite as life threatening as the sea.

Good luck Colin with your future flights and mastering this peculiar sport if ours.

[colin keightley]

Cheers Gordie and apologies to everyone who Ive jumped down their throats when more than one person says the same thing it starts to sound like a put down its just sometimes things ppl say do seem pretty obvious to me allready so it kind of made me feel like they thought i was stupid.

Yes I learnt a valuable lesson.

It will not catch me out again

[crook_101]

A lot of good points and some excellent advice from many parties covered in this topic - this is what keeps this forum as one of the most active & viewed in the UK......

However, the only piece of (non flying) advice i can offer is that before you click that "submit" button, re-read your posting - the message contained within may not be the one that you are trying to get across. Any ambiguities can be taken the wrong way. Having taken my own advice and re-read this posting, this previous comment is not directed at anyone in particular, either living or dead, the author refuses to accept any liability for any inferred or direct representation to any one person or persons affected by any or all of these comments and no animals were injured during the construction of this post

Having said that, i think a rota should be introduced for members to add an inflamatory post on a daily / weekly basis just to keep the viewing public happy!!