Funding expenditure

[brian day]

I'm sure you'll have read, / heard we have a £1500 funding grant to spend on equipment for newly qualified pilots to borrow in the short term until they can afford, gain the knowledge to purchase their own.

We need to make moves towards buying the equipment so that we can provide evidence of purchase and use by the beneficiaries quite quickly so that we prove the grant was necessary and maybe apply for further funding.

The first part of that process is to ask for ideas from club members, it would be great to hear from newly qualified pilots about their wants, needs and ideas too. I remember when I first qualified I was expecting the cost of a Pterodactyl and saddle, but not some of the smaller items, which still seemed to cost a fortune.

Please feel free to add your ideas to the list, we'll then have an online poll to make the final decision.

Ideas so far;

High end vario with gps trace and live track
Basic vario
Radio
Ground handling wing
Wind meter
Instrument cockpit
Air map

[berow]

I asked the opinion of the pilot there who is going through his training with Ronnie at the moment. He told me a paraglider/harness/reserve as he will have to beg and borrow to continue in the sport.

[brian day]

At the meeting there was great debate,,,, lets ask the membership,,,,we need to defer this important matter,,,,,have an on line poll,,,,have an online discussion,,,,,,we need to get it right....


One response!!!!!

[gary stenhouse]

been doing some thinking and from day one I had a gps vario and think it was by far the best thing I ever bought.

I think a gps that is easy to switch on that gives you height above take off distance from take off was a great tool.

also knowing the ground speed was another good thing to know whether it is to know forward speed or working out direction to land.

the Skytraxx was a very good easy machine for a newbie to be able to switch on and use.

also I think the independent livetrack device maybe very good as if someone would like to try there first xc could also have the use of one.

with the above then you either need a legg strap or a console though going back to my beginning the legg strap was by far the best.

some radios is a good thing though is another complaction when your a new pilot ok to listen to but having to ptt out starts getting complicated.

my worry about going down the route of harness gliders reserves is dangerous as they all need testing and come with risks.

I think for sure you have to be able to afford the basics harness glider reserve to become a pilot and if cannot afford this then I guess you need to consider its not possible to take up the sport.

[John Wallis]

I would think a basic wing harness and reserve would help new pilots get into the air especially if they are short of money. The gizmos can come later once they've learned to fly. Also a radio so they can listen in for changing conditions ie wind picking up rain coming base dropping. It might seem like common sense to most but if you're up there high on your first flights you'll be pre occupied with other things.

Just saying like.......

[colin keightley]

I dont think Gliders and Harnesses are an option, your straight away discriminating against some new pilots, 3 sizes of harness and 5 sizes of glider we cant buy them all. Radios is a great idea, Gary mentions about ptt issues but its useful to have just to listen to and an amazing tool for coaching to give advice but of course not instruction. A vario even if its just used for altitude is invaluble for making decisions as a newbee for crossing gaps. I still think from a safety aspect that a reserve would be agood idea. Most models only come in 2 sizes so I would suggest buy 1 now and then try to access another fund further down the line for another.

[ron freeman]

At the meeting there was great debate,,,, lets ask the membership,,,,we need to defer this important matter,,,,,have an on line poll,,,,have an online discussion,,,,,,we need to get it right....


One response!!!!!

No comments from me Brian because Colin mentioned that you and Ali were going to make the decision on what to buy and you agreed Brian. have we not bought anything yet as we don't want to jeopardise any future bids.

Reserves a must (nobody should be soaring without one !) Radios (brilliant) anything left GPS

The borrowing period also needs to be clear. I would say 2 months max so there is time to save for your own gear.

[Trevor Robinson]

Got to agree with Colin wings and harnesses may be troublesome. These are safety crital items and i think would need a documented check between borrowers. Radios and varios, even a gh wing, would not.

[John Wallis]

Yes I agree Colin never thought about the different weight ranges

[Christine Nicholls]

We/I will need to complete a monitoring form once the equipment has been purchased, (with copies of invoices etc.) therefore we will need to keep loosely to what we asked for in the funding application as they will check the monitoring form against the application form. There is some room for flexibility but below is what was included in the application:

In­flight Radio's x 4 Radio microphone and speaker x 4, Windmeters x 4 Vario's x 4 Porosity meter x1

Numbers can be changed i.e. we can buy 2 of each instead of 4 etc.

Hopefully the money has gone into the club bank account, if not, let me know and I will chase it up?

Publicity is going to have to be a consideration as NCC would expect something in the local paper once the equipment has been bought?

If you think we need anything else, I can put in another application to a different funder, let me know what you think?

[colin keightley]

I have just got a copy of the statement and it hasn't gone in yet

[Sad Northerner]

1. Livetrack enabled device (Safety)
2. Radio (Safety and Coaching)
3. data logger (coaching, i.e. evidencing flying experience)

These are all peripherals. Unless we get a lot more money I would expect new pilots to purchase their own harness, wing, reserve and helmet.

[gary stenhouse]

sounds perfect

[colin keightley]

Sounds good to me

[brian day]

Yep my thoughts exactly.

Do we need a vote to continue or are people happy for us to go ahead?

[colin keightley]

I would suggest that if anyone has a strong objection then to voice it here and if there isn't one by the end of the week then proceed.

[Trevor Robinson]

Every member has had anopportunity to contribute, why complicate it with a vote

[Sad Northerner]

I'll make some moves to get prices in the next couple of days. I'll include include prices for wind meters which I inadvertently omitted from my list.


Ali

[ron freeman]

Hi Ali, if they can afford a wing, harness & reserve, surely they can buy there own wind meter ?

I do think next on the agenda - who looks after all this equipment ?

- how long do they have it for ? and more importantly what security does the club have if they disappear with the gear ? or has all this been sorted out ?

Iv'e seen this with other sports clubs and the problems that can occur..

[brian day]

The problem with the next agenda is,,,,Christmas dinner,,,January cancelled,,,February...
Getting to late.
After all the interest on here, I really don't think it's worth it!

And what's the point in going round in more circles, the forum has more views from a wider audience than a meeting which usually attracts a mere handful of people.

When a new pilot makes the purchases to get him /her flying,,,a wing, harness and helmet, clothing and boots, it's sometimes the small items that will seem to break the bank so don't get purchased in the first instance. A wind meter for a new pilot is a very important safety device and is one of those things that go into the mindset of,,,,'I can do without that for now'

Unless there's a real reason, I think Ali should go ahead and get the prices, post them on this link and if there are no reasonable other suggestions with some agreement from others, go ahead and make the purchases.

[colin keightley]

I would say a simple signature for the item and a copy of a utility bill would be suffice. As for how long i think we should say maybe review the loan after 3 month and decide have they had chance to use it properly, is there currently someone waiting for one. And instead of putting a concrete set of time on it review it. Its much better someone getting the use out of it instead of it sitting in someones spare room.

[brian day]

All makes good sense to me Colin.

[Fingers]

Loaning out a £400 item will sooner or later be broken or lost, very easy to do. This to me = a load of hassle, red tape and possible awkwardness when someone who cant afford to buy there own GPS/vario and busts this £400 item, what happens then?

Why do these items need to be a loan? I remember having all the kit bar a vario, wind meter and a gps came much later. Why not just give a low cost vario and wind meter to all newly qualified members who live within a defined area, so you don’t have people from the lakes just joining to get the free gear for eg.

After all how many newly qualified people have joined the club in the last 10 years?

[colin keightley]

Unless we are to turn around and tell Northumbria County Council we don't want the money any more, then the decision of having an equipment pool for new pilots has already being decided its the what to buy was the thing left to discuss which I think we have now done.

[Trevor Robinson]

I think we need to show some trust in our fellow pilots, I can't think of many over the last 30 years I would not lend some equipment if asked and as for damage, well, it could happen but its not a reason to stop the initiative

[Sad Northerner]

Ron F can you suggest any solutions or suggestions to your concern?

Otherwise I agree with Bryan, Colin and Trev...... Fingers, however, can just go and 'do one'.

Ali

[ron freeman]

Just making a few pointers Ali to see if all this had been thought through...

[Fingers]

Fingers, however, can just go and 'do one'.

Ali

Do one?... What you on, had a few sherries, puffing your chest out? I'm simply stating the obvious, toss pot.

[colin keightley]

We are straying away from the topic here, creating a pool of equipment for new pilots has already been decided, as unfortunate as it is those who dont think its a good idea or dont agree with it, dont have to get involved with it. It's not costing the club any money and the money we have been awarded we cannot use for anything else.

This topic is purely to decide what items to buy to kick off the pool which would aid new pilots the most. We also have the option to access more funding at a later date to increase that pool.

So to summarise, we are buying equipment, its not costing the club, and we cant spend it on anything else.......

[colin keightley]

The persons home insurance would cover damage of the item if say said item was accidently knocked of kitchen table by wife